StarCrack AI Official Feedback Thread (V5.5)

[r3ddrag0nx]

some ideas for you turd (btw, i only play 1v1):

   
• stronger early game builds (games usually end under 15 minutes for me)
• ability to identify choke points and hold
• if overwhelmed by opposition, a.i. should retreat and macro/tech up/defense up then after a little while, engage another assault (instead of retreating/attacking in and out of fog of war especially with scout i've noticed this. they won't come in the base but will keep trying then backing off when they see my units over and over again)
• marginal cheating should be used for now
• ability to counter our tech choices (or push in base if they see us teching (high tier units early))

will think of more, but for now, great effort turd.

btw starcrack team, if u guys need any sort of help other than actual coding/feedback, let us know.

[ElvishSolution]

Can anyone give me some tips? I'm using v3 AI because that's the easiest I could find, but I still get owned. I just can't seem to get units out as fast as the AI can. :/ you guys complain that the AI is to easy, and yet I can't even win 1 match against version 3

Can someone please give me some advice/tips?

have 10 workers getting minerals, have one working build 2 pop increasing buildings(overseer for zerg) then build a unit building building, train units and expand resources etc.

10 workers? Sigh... Ok, go on TeamLiquid.net and watch the Day[9] daily. It's Tasteless's bro and he knows what he's talking about. Also watch some Artosis and David Kim vods, you'll know what to do.


The optimal worker count has been measured to be 24, but you should get more than that for maynarding purposes. Which means just as before, constant probes (but now with chrono).




Please make these AI MUCH harder. I'm only a D/D+ on ICCUP and I can take down these 1v3 no problem. I wonder what someone who isn't a noob could do to these AI...



If you still cannot win after reading up all of Liquipedia about general starcraft play and learning everything from Day[9] (and also playing ICCUP until your APM is at least 100 so you can actually build stuff...), then just 15nex. It should work on the computers quite easily. If you're too scared of that, try a 10/15 gate into 18 FE. I found that gives a safe expand with 3 zealots.

I agree, I'm far from a pro but I dominate this AI in short order, if I actually try to win I end a 1v3 in about 12 minutes.  The rule of thumb I've always used is Vespene - FOUR workers, if you watch closely a fresh worker waits half a second before going inside, and therefore a probe is always en-route with 8 gas.  Minerals, I've always made 2 workers per mineral patch, plus an extra 5.  Which with 9 patches (the standard amount) is 23, so the 24 optimal number mathematically makes sense.


Another tip, make sure you are always about 20 pop ahead of what you need, because you'll eat it up quick.


-Elvish

[Swarmling]

Ai is really good almost like faceing a real person but the lack counters and micro kindof and they also lack on what to build ive seen protoss build a expo  and copy the same builds that he has at hes first base and builds it in hes 2nd bases    first base has  forge gateway and core and 3 pylons and now he builds the same thing in hes 2nd base 1x gateway 1x forge and 1x core and 3 pylons why would u need 2x core and 2x forges..lol unless your going to upg attack which they only do somtimes seen them rush 1+ attack on zealots before

maybe try to get the AI to make more units then normal might help alot cause if i do a 6 pool like use to do in Broodwar the AI cant handle it i would have 4 lings before 1x gateway/rax/pool is built and just pwn the ai  6 pool is really good in starcraft 2 i think maybe not vs a real person cause he would get workers to kill my 4 ling rush but then again more were on the way
i wish i had a better PC everything is turn on verylow or turn off cause my laptop cant handle it wish i could see the game at full power but i think its fine the way it is..lol red smoke when people die...lol god i need a new PC

[orbb24]

So does it look like v6.0 will be out soon? I am looking forward to it. Loving what we are getting so far but would love an even smarter AI. This is great for my macro practice though.

[creamsoda]

There are maps for 1v3 here. Lost Temple is a good one because youprobably already know it. However, 1v3 is still too easy! One of theproblems is that if the computers meet eachother in the battlefieldthey will attack eachother...

then that's not 1v3.. that's still FFA... the map is just mislabeled.

[koolitseric]

Can anyone give me some tips? I'm using v3 AI because that's the easiest I could find, but I still get owned. I just can't seem to get units out as fast as the AI can. :/ you guys complain that the AI is to easy, and yet I can't even win 1 match against version 3

Can someone please give me some advice/tips?

have 10 workers getting minerals, have one working build 2 pop increasing buildings(overseer for zerg) then build a unit building building, train units and expand resources etc.

10 workers? Sigh... Ok, go on TeamLiquid.net and watch the Day[9] daily. It's Tasteless's bro and he knows what he's talking about. Also watch some Artosis and David Kim vods, you'll know what to do.


The optimal worker count has been measured to be 24, but you should get more than that for maynarding purposes. Which means just as before, constant probes (but now with chrono).




Please make these AI MUCH harder. I'm only a D/D+ on ICCUP and I can take down these 1v3 no problem. I wonder what someone who isn't a noob could do to these AI...



If you still cannot win after reading up all of Liquipedia about general starcraft play and learning everything from Day[9] (and also playing ICCUP until your APM is at least 100 so you can actually build stuff...), then just 15nex. It should work on the computers quite easily. If you're too scared of that, try a 10/15 gate into 18 FE. I found that gives a safe expand with 3 zealots.

Stop being a dick about it, you sucked in the beginning too obviously.  And AI commands are limited in beta, they are still working on it and its early phase so no reason to say I WANT HARDER I WANT HARDER, it just sounds gay.

[Rain[sun]]

Just found something that was a pleasant surprise; My mutas encountered a small group of stalkers and Id focus fire on them, and whenever theyd hit low health theyd blink away. Pretty basic and yet fairly useful micro since they can blink almost twice as far as the muta's radius

[p.W]

Been playing around some more, and walls definitely destroy AIs. They just don't know how to deal with them.


It might be too early to tell, but does it look like this is potentially solveable, given enough time and manpower? I can't imagine what sort of "IF" statement a blocked choke could fulfill, so as to be identified... but I sure hope it's possible!


Maybe it'll be at least partially fixed as soon as (/if) the retreat bug is out of the way. They'll still be slaughtered en masse, but at least they might seriously attempt to take the wall down in the meantime.

[SpiriT]

Wanna challenge? Play cheating 5.5 it's something at totally new level, imagine you destroy most of their probes and both nexuses, you return after 2 minutes they are back, but with flleet of carriers

[rackdude]

Can anyone give me some tips? I'm using v3 AI because that's the easiest I could find, but I still get owned. I just can't seem to get units out as fast as the AI can. :/ you guys complain that the AI is to easy, and yet I can't even win 1 match against version 3

Can someone please give me some advice/tips?

have 10 workers getting minerals, have one working build 2 pop increasing buildings(overseer for zerg) then build a unit building building, train units and expand resources etc.

10 workers? Sigh... Ok, go on TeamLiquid.net and watch the Day[9] daily. It's Tasteless's bro and he knows what he's talking about. Also watch some Artosis and David Kim vods, you'll know what to do.


The optimal worker count has been measured to be 24, but you should get more than that for maynarding purposes. Which means just as before, constant probes (but now with chrono).




Please make these AI MUCH harder. I'm only a D/D+ on ICCUP and I can take down these 1v3 no problem. I wonder what someone who isn't a noob could do to these AI...



If you still cannot win after reading up all of Liquipedia about general starcraft play and learning everything from Day[9] (and also playing ICCUP until your APM is at least 100 so you can actually build stuff...), then just 15nex. It should work on the computers quite easily. If you're too scared of that, try a 10/15 gate into 18 FE. I found that gives a safe expand with 3 zealots.

Stop being a dick about it, you sucked in the beginning too obviously.  And AI commands are limited in beta, they are still working on it and its early phase so no reason to say I WANT HARDER I WANT HARDER, it just sounds gay.

I know I sucked and I know I still suck. However, I don't see how I'm being a dick about it. I'm saying oh, this is easy, and if it isn't, here are some places where you can learn how to play much better. Be thankful I gave you the resources that were given to me (when my team leader showed me liquipedia I basically memorized all those BOs in a week!).


I mentioned that, I'm a 120 APM D/D+ noob on ICCUP. However, these AIs still don't do anything and the most fun you can make of it is just camp the middle in a 3v1 to simulate a 3v1 instead of an FFA. I know the AI commands are primitive right now, but they can at least make some triggers to make it spawn extra units or something. I don't care if it cheats, I just want some macro practice.



Another thing that can help out is have them spawn some DTs over the map. It will help put detection into your builds (or you can just complain about it like Artosis ).


Still, the AI needs more gateways. I believe what the Nony and the likes have been up to is 3 gates into warps into expo and then 7+ depending on your macro. AI is far behind there. It also needs to expand MUCH quicker. It needs to do something more strategic like set down the expo when the wave leaves the base, or if it's a third make it in the path.


Also, I noticed how the counter system works, and just based off of units won't do much. In the future (far future, this would be tough to implement because you'd have to redo a lot of the counter structure), it should be based off of builds. Seeing zealot when it's 10/15 is much different than 10/12 (or proxy 10/10 or however people proxy in this).


Overall, it's still entertaining... especially to watch them move out of the way of your nukes . Man, 5 ghost nuking is just too fun.

[Darkov]

In this replay: http://uploadinnngggg.hit.bg/ErrorAI.rar
You can see at around 6:50 an error with the AI, you can see a system massage, i dunno what that means. Note: this is not me playing ;-)
And for the prottoss with the Void Ray(yellow), why did he had only one assimilator? And why did he build just one void ray... this seems stupid to me. if he is going to build void rays, he should build more and he will need gas.

[ESL|Dynasty]

Im amazed by this AI but even the noncheating one seems to cheat.
I mean i played on blistering sands a PvP and got raped by so many carriers.
When i played ZvT, the terran was terrible. It only made some vikings and thats about it. He didnt't stand a chance even though he killed a serious ammount of overlords lol.

When i played TVT, i got raped again becouse he came with more vikings than my SCV count lol, and thats in the early rush.

[RaTcHeT302]

Protoss is the best one yet . Usualy when i get Terrans and Zergs they pown each others so they leave the rest to me. If i don't attack the PT before he gets mass-carriers I am pretty much screwed.

[adaptive]

Does anyone know if the AI has access to a local database? I have been involved with the google tron ai, plus other ai competitions and I am willing to help implement a few ai learning techniques. I know windows has a sqllite binary, and there are api's for sqlite access in all languages.

Plus, it would be interesting to allow players here to 'submit' the learning database so that the AI can learn and adapt.

[kblood]

Just played 3 games of PVT (me being protoss) just wiped the floor. My first time touching Protoss for awhile. Seem to concerned with pulling their forces back than actually building up a good enough force to beat me. A complete push over imo. Great work though!

I would agree that the AI pull back too often. I am trying to find the AI that makes computers pull back, and stop them from it.

I tested this map on a FFA 4 player map, the one where I was just an observer watching 4 computers. And it was two terrans and two zerg. One terran had the problem that it seemed to expand too much, and did not really build much army or make any attacks. The zerg build some armies, but the first rush of zerglings pulled back right after getting to the marines. Making its loss a complete waste.

Another problem seems to be that the AI does not upgrade. I saw one Terran player do the tier 1 armor for aircrafts. That was the only attack / armor upgrade I have seen an AI do. Is it intentionally not doing the other upgrades?