Hey what's the hardest AI available that's not cheating?
I played the 1337 AI and it seemed alright but I still crushed it. Thanks.
Try Starcrack 6 cheating if you're looking for a challenge
agreed, if you want a challenge, you have to go against a cheating ai. I dont really know much about coding but i dont think it would be possible to make a non cheating ai THAT goood. atleast if it could be done, you wont be seeing that exact release anytime soon, somthing like that would take a lot of time.
There are some mega fags on here that complain about the cheating ai being too easy, but for the casual RTS player, the cheating AI is pretty damn good. I can beat it, but i have to pay attention. right now, v6 is the best ive seen out. very beatable, but you can also get walked if your not paying attention.
Quote from: mx420 on March 06, 2010, 12:34:06 PM
agreed, if you want a challenge, you have to go against a cheating ai. I dont really know much about coding but i dont think it would be possible to make a non cheating ai THAT goood. atleast if it could be done, you wont be seeing that exact release anytime soon, somthing like that would take a lot of time.
There are some mega fags on here that complain about the cheating ai being too easy, but for the casual RTS player, the cheating AI is pretty damn good. I can beat it, but i have to pay attention. right now, v6 is the best ive seen out. very beatable, but you can also get walked if your not paying attention.
what this guy said.
Goosies cheating version of 5.5 is better than cheating 6.0
Right now i just Play Defend your base from scratch style. Enables me to test microing and lets the comp build up to mass carriers etc!
Try the AMAI. You will probably still win, but it will be more fun.
starcrack 6.1 is the hardest non-cheating AI at the moment, its quite competent, but not overly difficult.
im just thankful there is a great community working hard to crack SCII and create AI's for us to play the game. Great AI is just a bonus!
Even thought 6.1 cheating is the "hardest" its still not what you are looking for. All of these AI's are easily beaten, especially with a cannon rush, that's sad.
"especially with a cannon rush, that's sad."
fail... just play std against the A.I.... why would you want to cannon rush lol..
And if its still too easy play 1vs2 or 1vs3 team with this launcher http://darkblizz.org/Forum2/sc2-tools/starlauncher-v0-3-with-team-setting-colorrace-selection-slot-changing/ (http://darkblizz.org/Forum2/sc2-tools/starlauncher-v0-3-with-team-setting-colorrace-selection-slot-changing/)
Quote from: cyricc on March 09, 2010, 07:59:16 PM
Even thought 6.1 cheating is the "hardest" its still not what you are looking for. All of these AI's are easily beaten, especially with a cannon rush, that's sad.
Dont be ubsurd.... of course you can cheese the AI, you cant call this coding easy or bad for not reacting like a human would to a cannon rush.
You really just can't please some people.
6.1.1 cheating is the most difficult AI out there. You need to have your build orders tight in the beginning to defend the rush and it teaches you to counter push. Without good countering the AI will send a bigger force than you are eventually able to defend against and it makes sustaining a natural very difficult.
Sure there are things you can do to glitch the AI out, using height for example. The AI responds poorly to height advantage and will generally just push through what any human would see as a bad situation. The AI is not going to warp prism zeolots onto your tanks, its an AI.
However, with all that said, simply DL it play it but with standard builds. Saying it's easy because you can cannon rush it is completely irrelivent and besides the point.
I wonder if Blizzard's final AI when the game is released is smarter than Starcrack's 6.1.1 or 7.0 version... Compared to WC3's very hard Blizzard AI, how does starcrack stand? I remember Blizzard used to cheat by knowing your location on WC3
Quote from: cyricc on March 09, 2010, 07:59:16 PM
Even thought 6.1 cheating is the "hardest" its still not what you are looking for. All of these AI's are easily beaten, especially with a cannon rush, that's sad.
Quotethat's sad.
Oh the irony.
:D
Cheating AI isn't something like, he has "999999999999 resources and 0 build time". Cheating AI get's x2 resources and he has vision (doesn't have to scout). Keeping in mind that the current non cheating AI is pretty weak, cheating AI would be around the real players skill, so it's definitely worth a try out :}.
Quote from: Whitefang on March 06, 2010, 11:51:32 AM
Hey what's the hardest AI available that's not cheating?
I played the 1337 AI and it seemed alright but I still crushed it. Thanks.
in starcraft 1 the ai cheated with map vision, the extra resource rate of cheating ai isnt that big of an improvement it just means they will be slightly faster at getting units out therefore making it near impossible to rush them (atleast with my abilities anyway)
but if you want a challenge go against v6.1.1 cheating AI that one by far is one of the most difficult ive played. they still "scout" you but it still wont matter its an AI and the AI wont abuse the "map hack" to the extent that a player would.
Quote from: klaretos on March 10, 2010, 07:20:12 AM
I wonder if Blizzard's final AI when the game is released is smarter than Starcrack's 6.1.1 or 7.0 version... Compared to WC3's very hard Blizzard AI, how does starcrack stand? I remember Blizzard used to cheat by knowing your location on WC3
I think it's a safe assumption that the Blizzard AI will be superior to anything a mod community with limited resources and time can achieve, with staggered levels of difficulty and thousands of hours of testing.
It's likely that with the time and manpower Blizzard has, the harder AI's will be prepared for almost every strategy and contingency, including counters to most if not all of the cheap tricks that are currently being used vs. mod community's AI.
I mean look at how competent Starcrack 6.1 already is after less than what, 2 weeks? Blizzard has years. I can only imagine the inane theoretical unit compositions the AI has been programmed to counter that 99.999% of us will never use against it... :-X
Actually the Blizzard Ai always has been pretty stupid. Dont think it stands a chance against an advanced cheating Ai. Just think about Broodwar, with Racine and Entropy which are alot better than standard ai. Warcraft Ai wasn't much better too.
I'm not sure if Blizzards Ai is cheating but non-cheating Ai's will never be a real problem for a normal rts player. But who knows :)
just play and watch for your self what will happen..
i like this version very challenging of course can be defeated but hell yah how many hours of trying.
this is really cool hope for 6.2 soon. :D
Original AI of War3 was a disaster.
The cheating difficulty(Insane) got 2x resources but wasnt even noticably harder than none cheating(Normal) becuse it didnt know how to make use of the extra resources.
Quote from: ProoM on March 10, 2010, 09:38:14 AM
Cheating AI get's x2 resources and he has vision (doesn't have to scout).
Normal AI also have vision. It is only faking "scouting".
Quote from: NefiX on March 11, 2010, 09:48:51 AM
Normal AI also have vision. It is only faking "scouting".
and THAT's where you are wrong, when it comes to the SC2 AI, and it's whats make it really interesting and original compared to any other RTS AI before it.
Vision disabled SC2 AI doesnt know about anything it havent seen before.
This ofc also makes it very fun and challenging to make a good none cheating SC2 AI.
Quote from: NefiX on March 11, 2010, 09:48:51 AM
Quote from: ProoM on March 10, 2010, 09:38:14 AM
Cheating AI get's x2 resources and he has vision (doesn't have to scout).
Normal AI also have vision. It is only faking "scouting".
Nope, I know for a fact that the AI follows identical rules to the player.
Quote from: claushouse on March 10, 2010, 08:08:48 PM
I think it's a safe assumption that the Blizzard AI will be superior to anything a mod community with limited resources and time can achieve, with staggered levels of difficulty and thousands of hours of testing.
There are good SC1 AIs. But SC2 AIs were better 1 week after release. Blizzard has provided excellent tools and functions for creating AIs. Blizzard AIs will be designed for mass market use. Use all units. Purposefully not macro/micro perfectly. Generally Be beatable, because that's what mass market wants.
SC1 custom AIs, and the variety of SC2 AIs brought style variety and emulation of pro strategies. There are SC1 AIs (BWAI) PvZ that focus on getting early corsairs or strive to go archon heavy. That unfortunately is a hard computer strategy compared to 2 gate zealots (typical blizz AI start) because its vulnerable to early lings. That AI is bad because it doesn't have pro understanding of the strategy, and great if the player wants to practise against the strengths of the AI, instead of timing attacks to its weaknessses.
Custom AIs should both be better (at least eventually) than blizzard's because blizzard doesnt want to make it too strong, and necessarily more varied.
For one, Blizzard will be providing the source code for its AI, so a better AI 2-3 days after release should be expected. For all we know, Blizz may not have developed a good AI yet, and will hire people on this board.
Blizzard's AI when SC2 is released should not be expected to be better than the AIs made here. The only thing they might make better with their AI is full use of all abilities of all units. I think some of the openings that the Starcrack AI is using is better than the openings the Blizzard AI will be using. Blizzards AI might be better at mid and later game at least compared to the 6.1.1 AI, but I know it is only a matter of time before something better than the Blizzard AI is made.
I am guessing that Blizzard will still make an "insane" difficulty with double resources. So far I really like how they have made the AI and the tools behind it. They have made it possible for the AI to be somewhat "human" with APM limits and having to scout. I remember playing Warcraft 3 a lot. So much that I got used to knowing where they would attack. They would always attack the last expansion that was built, so on 2vs2 just make the first two expansions fast, and make sure the second one is where the defense will be put. Even at insane, after taking out the first 2-3 armies (2vs3 or 4) it was quite possible that they would just come with few scattered units that was easy to beat.
I am hoping the AI for SC2 will be so good that AI teams will know how to coordinate attacks and defenses.
Quote from: Zalamander on March 11, 2010, 11:16:49 AM
Quote from: NefiX on March 11, 2010, 09:48:51 AM
Normal AI also have vision. It is only faking "scouting".
and THAT's where you are wrong, when it comes to the SC2 AI, and it's whats make it really interesting and original compared to any other RTS AI before it.
Vision disabled SC2 AI doesnt know about anything it havent seen before.
This ofc also makes it very fun and challenging to make a good none cheating SC2 AI.
You are wrong. AI see all your units. You can try moving your roaches burrowed to AI base, he will scan exactly where your units are. You can try moving your army to other side of the map, ai will come there to kill you without scouting.
which ai are you using? I believe that some cheater ai's do have full vision, but most of the non-cheating ai's must scout to see anything.
Quote from: NefiX on March 15, 2010, 11:49:06 AM
You are wrong. AI see all your units. You can try moving your roaches burrowed to AI base, he will scan exactly where your units are. You can try moving your army to other side of the map, ai will come there to kill you without scouting.
If the AI does not have the cheat of vision enabled (so, it is in "normalvision") it does need to scout, thats for sure.
any ai 5vs1 ? GL with 1st rush :D
The AI's aren't challenging. The only challange is to win VS cheating. But that's no more fun, according to my play experience
"Strategy AI" is actually one of the best NON cheating AIs I've tried... although I've only gone up against T, so far so good. Lots of harrass, nice mixture of units, and great macro. Try it out...
http://darkblizz.org/Forum2/ai-scripts/ghost-ai-and-strategy-ai-updated/ (http://darkblizz.org/Forum2/ai-scripts/ghost-ai-and-strategy-ai-updated/)
Update:
I've now played against all three races of the strategy AI, and omfg, this damn AI is actually pretty difficult to beat (if you don't cheese it, obv). If you don't really stay on top of them, they'll expand all over the map, with every race. I seriously haven't found a single flaw with this AI. And I really have no problem with the AI having full vision - I think in SC1 they had full vision as default. Also, I've played against many map-hackers on SC1, and I usually won. The point is if you suck, you suck...vision won't really help you.
They only retreat when I will clearly win the battle, they micro hurt units to the back, worker saturation is great, unit composition is AWESOME, harass is insane, etc etc.
The best AI so far, hands down!
godspiral, +1
and i agree with Organized_Chaos, strategy AI will kill you if you under estimate them, unlike cheating x2 resource ai ( which is just a huge army that comes to your base with counters to your units and as soon as you can fend it off you can go kill their base ) where this one will attack your probes with w/e while your fighting a battle.
They only cheat in the sense of map vision on, but other than that, its normal resources for them too.
Manta
Yeah, strategy AI thus far has been the best for all 3 races. Ghost AI is a very good terran-only AI.
Starcrack 6.1, cheating or otherwise is really easy. I mean I beat the cheating version just by powering through it. It's really pretty weak.
Thus far zerg always seems to be the hardest race to AI effectively. Every zerg AI seems to just suck.
Ragingpolarbear, you are spot on. I don't know though for terran which is better, Strategy 0.2 or Ghost 0.9?
Right.. i have come to rate each none resource cheating AI i played as follows..
Easy - StarCrack_7.0_Easy
Normal - StarCrack_7.0_Standard
Hard - Strategy_AI_0.2Ghost AI 0.8-Only Against Terran
For me fighting against cheating AI no longer allows you to test strats that would work against human players because of the faster production of units. some rush strats yes but overall, does not play off well and aint so much fun.
Manta
Yeah I'm continuing to have very challenging games 1v1 against the strategy AI...and a few games where I was slacking, it actually BEAT me. ??? I don't underestimate it anymore! lol
I have no idea how the hell they coded it that well, but it's amazing for a non-resource cheating AI. It was coded by a Chinese modder, right?
Either way, leaps and bounds above the rest... I wish I knew exactly who coded it so I could congratulate them.
Wow. I just have to say Strategy AI is amazing. Very good work.
strategy AI 0.21 is better then ghost ai 1.1(aiur ai 1.20 protos is equal to strategy ai 0.21 protos). starcrack v7.0 ai is the worst
For now it really is the Strategy AI 0.21 that is the hardest one.
I've won easily against both StarCrack 7.0 standard and Cheating, I even increased the amount of ressources for 7.0 cheating, and I'm still beating it without too much efforts.
But I've downloaded Strategy AI 0.21 this week, and I simply can,t beat the cheating version. The units aren't extremely smarter, but it's using its double ressources really well, and I simply can't seem to be able to beat it for now.
Try Strategy AI if you want a challenge. It is the best AI I have seen so far. I used to play starcrack 6.1.1 and 7.0 like most people did, but the strategy AI in my opinion is WAY better. The AI understand eco harass well(especially terran) and know what and when to switch units when the attack is not working.
I think this AI really needs more attention, I felt it is a pity that only few people are using this amazing AI.
http://darkblizz.org/Forum2/ai-scripts/amazing-ai-!!-(try-it-out)/ (http://darkblizz.org/Forum2/ai-scripts/amazing-ai-!!-(try-it-out)/)