Hardest AI?

[claushouse]

I wonder if Blizzard's final AI when the game is released is smarter than Starcrack's 6.1.1 or 7.0 version... Compared to WC3's very hard Blizzard AI, how does starcrack stand? I remember Blizzard used to cheat by knowing your location on WC3

I think it's a safe assumption that the Blizzard AI will be superior to anything a mod community with limited resources and time can achieve, with staggered levels of difficulty and thousands of hours of testing.


It's likely that with the time and manpower Blizzard has, the harder AI's will be prepared for almost every strategy and contingency, including counters to most if not all of the cheap tricks that are currently being used vs. mod community's AI.


I mean look at how competent Starcrack 6.1 already is after less than what, 2 weeks? Blizzard has years. I can only imagine the inane theoretical unit compositions the AI has been programmed to counter that 99.999% of us will never use against it... 

[blabla7]

Actually the Blizzard Ai always has been pretty stupid. Dont think it stands a chance against an advanced cheating Ai. Just think about Broodwar, with Racine and Entropy which are alot better than standard ai. Warcraft Ai wasn't much better too.
I'm not sure if Blizzards Ai is cheating but non-cheating Ai's will never be a real problem for a normal rts player. But who knows

[dodongbadong]

just play and watch for your self what will happen..

i like this version very challenging of course can be defeated but hell yah how many hours of trying.

this is really cool hope for 6.2 soon.

[Zalamander]

Original AI of War3 was a disaster.
The cheating difficulty(Insane) got 2x resources but wasnt even noticably harder than none cheating(Normal) becuse it didnt know how to make use of the extra resources.

[NefiX]

Cheating AI get's x2 resources and he has vision (doesn't have to scout).

Normal AI also have vision. It is only faking "scouting".

[Zalamander]

Normal AI also have vision. It is only faking "scouting".

and THAT's where you are wrong, when it comes to the SC2 AI, and it's whats make it really interesting and original compared to any other RTS AI before it.

Vision disabled SC2 AI doesnt know about anything it havent seen before.
This ofc also makes it very fun and challenging to make a good none cheating SC2 AI.

[turdburgler]

Cheating AI get's x2 resources and he has vision (doesn't have to scout).

Normal AI also have vision. It is only faking "scouting".

Nope, I know for a fact that the AI follows identical rules to the player.

[godspiral]

I think it's a safe assumption that the Blizzard AI will be superior to anything a mod community with limited resources and time can achieve, with staggered levels of difficulty and thousands of hours of testing.

There are good SC1 AIs.  But SC2 AIs were better 1 week after release.  Blizzard has provided excellent tools and functions for creating AIs.  Blizzard AIs will be designed for mass market use.  Use all units.  Purposefully not macro/micro perfectly.  Generally Be beatable, because that's what mass market wants.

SC1 custom AIs, and the variety of SC2 AIs brought style variety and emulation of pro strategies.  There are SC1 AIs (BWAI) PvZ that focus on getting early corsairs or strive to go archon heavy.  That unfortunately is a hard computer strategy compared to 2 gate zealots (typical blizz AI start) because its vulnerable to early lings.  That AI is bad because it doesn't have pro understanding of the strategy, and great if the player wants to practise against the strengths of the AI, instead of timing attacks to its weaknessses.

Custom AIs should both be better (at least eventually) than blizzard's because blizzard doesnt want to make it too strong, and necessarily more varied. 

For one, Blizzard will be providing the source code for its AI, so a better AI 2-3 days after release should be expected.  For all we know, Blizz may not have developed a good AI yet, and will hire people on this board.

[kblood]

Blizzard's AI when SC2 is released should not be expected to be better than the AIs made here. The only thing they might make better with their AI is full use of all abilities of all units. I think some of the openings that the Starcrack AI is using is better than the openings the Blizzard AI will be using. Blizzards AI might be better at mid and later game at least compared to the 6.1.1 AI, but I know it is only a matter of time before something better than the Blizzard AI is made.
I am guessing that Blizzard will still make an "insane" difficulty with double resources. So far I really like how they have made the AI and the tools behind it. They have made it possible for the AI to be somewhat "human" with APM limits and having to scout. I remember playing Warcraft 3 a lot. So much that I got used to knowing where they would attack. They would always attack the last expansion that was built, so on 2vs2 just make the first two expansions fast, and make sure the second one is where the defense will be put. Even at insane, after taking out the first 2-3 armies (2vs3 or 4) it was quite possible that they would just come with few scattered units that was easy to beat.
I am hoping the AI for SC2 will be so good that AI teams will know how to coordinate attacks and defenses.

[NefiX]

Normal AI also have vision. It is only faking "scouting".

and THAT's where you are wrong, when it comes to the SC2 AI, and it's whats make it really interesting and original compared to any other RTS AI before it.

Vision disabled SC2 AI doesnt know about anything it havent seen before.
This ofc also makes it very fun and challenging to make a good none cheating SC2 AI.

You are wrong. AI see all your units. You can try moving your roaches burrowed to AI base, he will scan exactly where your units are. You can try moving your army to other side of the map, ai will come there to kill you without scouting.

[ShadowTiger]

which ai are you using? I believe that some cheater ai's do have full vision, but most of the non-cheating ai's must scout to see anything.

You are wrong. AI see all your units. You can try moving your roaches burrowed to AI base, he will scan exactly where your units are. You can try moving your army to other side of the map, ai will come there to kill you without scouting.

[DarkZeros]

If the AI does not have the cheat of vision enabled (so, it is in "normalvision") it does need to scout, thats for sure.

[Dariusz]

any ai 5vs1 ? GL with 1st rush

[Eragon]

The AI's aren't challenging. The only challange is to win VS cheating. But that's no more fun, according to my play experience

[Organized_Chaos]

"Strategy AI" is actually one of the best NON cheating AIs I've tried... although I've only gone up against T, so far so good.  Lots of harrass, nice mixture of units, and great macro.  Try it out...

http://darkblizz.org/Forum2/ai-scripts/ghost-ai-and-strategy-ai-updated/

Update:

I've now played against all three races of the strategy AI, and omfg, this damn AI is actually pretty difficult to beat (if you don't cheese it, obv).  If you don't really stay on top of them, they'll expand all over the map, with every race.  I seriously haven't found a single flaw with this AI.  And I really have no problem with the AI having full vision - I think in SC1 they had full vision as default.  Also, I've played against many map-hackers on SC1, and I usually won.  The point is if you suck, you suck...vision won't really help you.

They only retreat when I will clearly win the battle, they micro hurt units to the back, worker saturation is great, unit composition is AWESOME, harass is insane, etc etc. 

The best AI so far, hands down!