StarCrack AI Official 6.0 Feedback Thread

[kewickviper]

Just looked at the code. Very nice guys! Still a lot of stock spam, but I like the 3 different variations on open/mid/late giving 27 different combination's for each race. Will run some tests now and play a few games against it!

[brutester]

This AI is much better then the ones before.

But there is a huge problem:
There is no AI in the AI scripts - they just do pre-programed orders.

Examples with the Zerg AI:
1. void ZergMid1... No protection against air units - the protoss does VoidRays and kicks their ass. Zerg continues to do Zerglings+Roaches.

2. I've watched ZergLate1() vs. ProtossLate1() - 20 Hydras(without Grooved Spines) vs. 20 Carriers - again not a good duel

In the games above it should use the InitCounters() and see that it should start doing a lot of Hydras/Corruptors, not starting the ZergMid1/ZergLate1() again and doing 40 Zerglings + 25 Roaches.

I've played against AIs with TerranLate1()/ProtossLate1(). 60 Hydras with Grooved Spines and RangeAttacks2+Armor2 kicks them

Another issue is on Lost Temple - when someone expands on the Top left/bottom right corners reachable only from air, the Zerg Ai continues to do ground units, but doesn't do Ventral Sacs(transport ability for Overlords)

I hope this will help for the next release. Keep up the good work

[formerself]

Got through a PvT in about 14 minutes and here is the relevant info (6.0 standard):
+ AI built supply depots around his CC and barracks. Nice protection.
- No tech upgrades even though he launched and attack with lots of marines and marauders. Instead he built 2 factories and 2 starports and used those for building 1 medivac.
- Seemed like he could see through the smoke on scrap station.
- He got way too much gas and still he never used mules to try to balance it out.
+ He identified his ramp / choke point and set the barrack waypoints there.
- He didn't lift his buildings when being overrun by zealots.
- No constant flow of units, even though resources would allow it (he could've been saving for an expansion though).

[pixartist]

Dude nice AI, had a lot of fun in my first game (TvZ) and I actually lost to Ultralisks, but I found two weird things..


1. The AI had (2) Overseers in my base, and when I attacked them, then only retreated a few meters and then stopped, so I could easily kill both.
2. I harrased his army of ultras & zerling with 2 battlecruisers, and he didn't know how to react because he couldn't attack me. His units just spazzed around and then died, instead of fleeing

[Bodzilla]

Just managed to beat this AI

StarCrack AI 6.0 AI Cheating Edition
- AI has a 2x harvest bonus and can see the whole map

While the resource is very very hard to fight against, nearly impossible in most case's The ai isn't very good against countering Air assaults.
The dont build alot of anti-air forces and just now i was able to beat an AI that wiped out the map with nothing but 4 hatchery's and a greater spire.
Brood lords are god.

I was building in the bonus base's on lost temple.
They just dont seem to be able to launch larger scale drop ship attacks or air forces in general.

Cheers zilla

and thanks btw

[turdburgler]

Feedback seems to be around 50/50.

Half love it, half think it's too easy. To the second half, you guys have to realise, you're playing against what we've only been working on for a week, it's not going to be great against your walls, or your cheese. It might not ever be, we can only play with what Blizzard have given us and it's really not that much.

As far as countering goes, we are yet to find a foolproof method, we tried to offset that in this version by giving the AI a mix of units in his attacks. As well as making him build a good amount of AA in his bases. But it seems from feedback you're not happy with it.

v6.1 will come this weekend with the build orders fixed and a few other fixes I didn't get around to doing late late night.

[kblood]

Great AI, lots of improvements
I just tested it on sYk0's 6 player map, viewing as observer. It was 2 terran vs 4 zerg.
BUG alert, one Zerg, computer 5 on this map, bugged in its initialization process. It must have been something important, because it did make an overlord, but was still capped to 11 units. After that it just stopped. Massed almost 2000 minerals doing nothing but collecting.
Other than that the other AIs went on. It was nice to see so many of the same so I could see the different builds. Possibly anyway
Pros:
Zerg actually burrowed its workers when attacked Zerg uses its detector units and both has some in base and one with its army. Was useful against the Zerg who just burrowed The Zerg going lategame, bult mutalisks, hydralisks and ultralisks, and still some of those essential zerglings which it used to take out a few expansions.
Terran played well also. I did not notice if it repaired its units, but one made a medivac for the first attack group. That is a powerful and important combo. Well, not sure if it was its first, but it did seem to add it to its first group later. Also after loosing its units it actually was already building another army and had it ready by the time the first one was gone. It probably helped that this one came out on top of just about all battles, and had a good income. It used Vikings, Siege Tanks, Marines, Thors and Marauders. A powerful combo.
Even more importantly, it had the siege tanks in the second army set up to defend its main base while making it, and while having its attacking army... well attacking
Cons:
This was my first view of the AI so it might not all be true, but some things that seemed lacking:
Terran vs Siege Tanks - When attacking a siege tank the usually long ranged terran units did not try getting close and personal to avoid the siege cannon. Not sure how that should be put into the tactical AI, but it could be useful.
It seems it might never fall back, but I still prefer this over always falling back.
It seems to need some kind of emergency script. When having lost too many buildings, it needs to rebuild. And it always seems to fail at getting more workers. It might even be using its much needed minerals on building something, almost killing itself being down to one worker already.
Also I think it needs to reevaluate its current work orders. Like more building checks. One Terran got attacked, and had resources, but did not seem to be pumping out whatever troops it could to save its base. It might not have made a difference but the attackers pulled back, to defend somewhere I think. After that it failed having only one SCV and not beginning to pump out more SCVs straight away. Which makes me think it needs emergency modes, where it is low on specific buildings and units. It might already be there, it just did not seem to work in this game.
One thing I would very much like to see is a turtle AI. One that just plays defensive until it survives an attack and has a huge army.
But so far it really seems to be a great AI Good work and thank you all very much.

[pondloso]

i found one
when i play zerg and ai an zerg
i attack them with air foce and they only spaw zergling to fight me
it very dump what first i though but i realize after the reason they only bluide
zergling because they not development any air foce it poor ai it away play the rush step
they just bluide big foce for rush game but not think any development
i play with this AI about 10 game all of them and so quick not to long after they decilne
to attack me an i couter back an that it END every game never saw the other stye playing
of this AI thet just rush only or they rush more then other maybe but for me never saw

BTW good jop guy this AI gave me hardest game so far keep going with random good tactics

[kblood]

Feedback seems to be around 50/50.

Half love it, half think it's too easy. To the second half, you guys have to realise, you're playing against what we've only been working on for a week, it's not going to be great against your walls, or your cheese. It might not ever be, we can only play with what Blizzard have given us and it's really not that much.

As far as countering goes, we are yet to find a foolproof method, we tried to offset that in this version by giving the AI a mix of units in his attacks. As well as making him build a good amount of AA in his bases. But it seems from feedback you're not happy with it.

v6.1 will come this weekend with the build orders fixed and a few other fixes I didn't get around to doing late late night.

I do not think you should expect us to ever be happy with it. At least there are always possible ways to improve the AI, but it seems very close to the AI scripts in other Blizzard RTS games now. After fixing workorders and a few bugs, my wish list for the AI would be counter measures. More counter builds when the current builds are not working. Seems the problem might be figuring out when to counter build. If I am not mistaken it should be possible to just make some part of the script add anti air units i.e. to the current army? Maybe make it build a few more anti air defense buildings at least if it has too few of them.

[gamerjr]

Ok ive done a few tests on v6 and i think that the AI is much for intellegent but I am seeing a large decrease in brute force and rushing (ive only done like 4 matches though). Also I was doing a PvP and i decided to build a pylon inside the (tree's i think it was) inside his base to warp things in, well the computer found my probe and chased it with about 12 zelot's and once i entered they went away, So i owned with a bunch of stalkers and zelots but that is a common sense that the probe didn't disappear.

[brutester]

I've found another bug in ZergAI. It had 5 expansions, but only 14 drones in total. 6 Drones for minerals and 8 for gas.

P.S. I think this is because AI it is not building new Drones, but using them for new buildings.

[Flayer]

This AI is better than any in current Blizzard games, great work for such a short development time!

With a couple of minor bugs worked out on the macro/counter level it will really be a pleasure to play against. Of course AI will never match a human player but now we can have a fun game of SC2 without being in the beta.

[Lenor]

The Ai is too easy,even the cheating one...the v5.5 cheating is the best so far.Sorry but 6.0 sucks bad

Still,beyond excelent work on v5.5

[Rahab]

The Ai is too easy,even the cheating one...the v5.5 cheating is the best so far.Sorry but 6.0 sucks bad

Still,beyond excelent work on v5.5

At least have the courtesy to explain why you think it sucks so bad.. just saying it sucks doesn't help the creators of the AI

[Lenor]

The Ai is too easy,even the cheating one...the v5.5 cheating is the best so far.Sorry but 6.0 sucks bad

Still,beyond excelent work on v5.5

At least have the courtesy to explain why you think it sucks so bad.. just saying it sucks doesn't help the creators of the AI

Already said that in the 3rd page of this topic,the AI sucks bad because it's so easy,killed 30 zealots with 6 roaches...no need for more examples.It's like the devs struggled to make the AI so easy,made excelent work with 5.5,dunno why this turned out to be so bad