DarkBlizz

Quote from: bcboncs on March 06, 2010, 08:44:29 AM

Anyone have any ideas?
Thx

I might have an idea. It would require map editing though, but use the real BaseAI in the Starcraft 2 Beta, all original files there, and then add the new AIs directly to the maps and put the maps you play into the folder: 
..AppData\Local\Blizzard Entertainment\Battle.net\Cache\Download
With some editing done to a few maps, they can have the AI you use the most, and their replays should work just fine. I will add some working 6.0 maps to my server.
Added some here:
http://dionysus.dk/SC2/Maps%20with%20Starcrack%20V6%20AI/
These are just Syk0's maps with the TriggerLibs folder from the Starcrack 6.0 folder in them. I have not tested these maps yet though, and having to launch them with lazylaunch makes many maps needed to try observer mode, 1vs1 maps, 4 player maps and so on. Still it is a way to be able to both watch replays from Official Beta Players, and possibly from other players on this forum... yay  Lets have a competition about who is pwned the most by the v6.0 AI.
Well, I got some testing to do. Brb.

Seems no one figured this out yet. I remembered this thread and it inspired me to try. I went to the cache folder, where there is a download folder. I figured it would work just like the download folder in Warcraft 3, and guess what? It does 
So I just added my maps into the:
(windows drive):\Users\*windows login*\AppData\Local\Blizzard Entertainment\Battle.net\Cache\Download
or just ..\Battle.net\Cache\Download in short. All maps in that folder will have working replays in the replay folder. With AI and everything.
Tried with one of Syko's maps:
http://dionysus.dk/SC2/
All these maps here might only have observer mode though. Not sure. I mainly use them to test AI. I wonder if this will work if you play the same map, placed somewhere else, as long as it is in the download folder? I will have to try 

It was said they will have an Open Beta. If that means open for people who preorders only... well all the more respect for Blizzard down the pipe for me.
The great company is now on its way to become a cash cow for its owner, and with high profits being the main priority for everything they do. Although it was quite a different attitude that got them where they are today.
The most important reason they are where they are today I have to admit is that they make quality games. At least that certainly have not changed.

I will give a B for effort. B+ even Still doubt it will happen any faster though. Please try mailing this to Blizzard though. I have tried harrasing their forums about it, but at the end of my WoW subscription my days of whining at their forum came to an abrupt end 
So I came here. Get a bucket, because I will whine about it here as well. Even when crackers have made LAN possible, I will still whine to Blizzard about not officially putting LAN into the game. 
I will become a greater flood threat than global warming, and its all Blizzards fault. You have all been warned 

Quote from: Jimbo on March 06, 2010, 08:59:17 PM
YEA! It's actually already in testing! Try to message some folks about gettin a dl link for it.. i think it's kept really private at the moment 

Some new user with four posts knows about this? Sounds like he is pulling our leg to annoy the people here. Anyways I do not care as long as it is not working anyway. The testing therefore is at most, playing games that probably wont play all the way through before having severe bugs ruin everything and crashing the game. If I was asked to help alpha beta test, the emulator of the Battle-Net2 Beta server, then I would join and call in sick from work straight away... 
But I think it is unlikely so soon. Although I would not mind if I have underestimated the hackers and crackers around here yet again.

I have been thinking some more about it, and it should be very possible to do it, by using the difficulty settings. I am guessing that could allow 5 AI per map or game. But it might still require radical changes to all AI that would be usable in this way.
I was hoping for some way to just call Race(something).galaxy and a Race#.galaxy per player and make that the AIs in use. Problem is the functions in each of those maps affects all players. Not sure if commands used before including these scripts could change that perhaps.
I still think it could end up being CPU heavy having several scripts running at once, and makes it possibly for many bugs to happen because of AI script conflicts of some kind. Would have been easier if the game was turn based strategy instead of RTS 

It should be possible to make the AI files player specific, right? It would take some code changing, but after that it should be possible to make AI per player, instead of per game.
It might not work, since it would require each AI file for each players script to be player specific in all 3-6 AI scripts. In the new Starcrack v6 it would require even more, because it will affect even more scripts. But I guess those scripts might not need to change since they are AI specific anyway, for now at least.
Anyone think it would be useful? Would it take more CPU power with that many scripts? So far there are no 12 player maps, but would be nice to be able to match up players. I am thinking the only real way to make this possible without needing much work done to each AI made compatible to this, would be to make each race specific code also being player specific at the same time. I guess it ought to be easier than that with the right commands. Maybe being able to make AI being called per player, but I am not sure the games scripting system really makes that possible. As it is now I think they are all global scripts, but this feature would be very nice to test AIs against each other. Which seems the most entertaining part of SC2 atm A bit like those robot matches people make sometimes. Welcome to the AI Colosseum 

Nice That just leaves the handicap settings  I found them somewhere, but do not think it is that simple to just change the setting in the XML file in the map. Seems you guys found a better way to do it.
I would wish the actual how would be shared more. You seem like the only one who shared some real how to stuff when it comes to changes that require hex editing or anything other than .galaxy files. Then again I am usually not focused and patient enough to really learn it anyway 

Try using the folder
..\StarCraft II Beta\Mods\Liberty.SC2Mod"
This is where the game expect your Base.SC2Data to be. If it is .galaxy AI files, it expects them to be in:
"..\StarCraft II Beta\TriggerLibs"
But that kind of AI might cause problems with the Base.SC2Data AI, so stick with that to begin with.

Quote from: turdburgler on March 06, 2010, 08:16:06 AM
Feedback seems to be around 50/50.

Half love it, half think it's too easy. To the second half, you guys have to realise, you're playing against what we've only been working on for a week, it's not going to be great against your walls, or your cheese. It might not ever be, we can only play with what Blizzard have given us and it's really not that much.

As far as countering goes, we are yet to find a foolproof method, we tried to offset that in this version by giving the AI a mix of units in his attacks. As well as making him build a good amount of AA in his bases. But it seems from feedback you're not happy with it.

v6.1 will come this weekend with the build orders fixed and a few other fixes I didn't get around to doing late late night.

I do not think you should expect us to ever be happy with it. At least there are always possible ways to improve the AI, but it seems very close to the AI scripts in other Blizzard RTS games now. After fixing workorders and a few bugs, my wish list for the AI would be counter measures. More counter builds when the current builds are not working. Seems the problem might be figuring out when to counter build. If I am not mistaken it should be possible to just make some part of the script add anti air units i.e. to the current army? Maybe make it build a few more anti air defense buildings at least if it has too few of them.

Great AI, lots of improvements
I just tested it on sYk0's 6 player map, viewing as observer. It was 2 terran vs 4 zerg.
BUG alert, one Zerg, computer 5 on this map, bugged in its initialization process. It must have been something important, because it did make an overlord, but was still capped to 11 units. After that it just stopped. Massed almost 2000 minerals doing nothing but collecting.
Other than that the other AIs went on. It was nice to see so many of the same so I could see the different builds. Possibly anyway
Pros:
Zerg actually burrowed its workers when attacked Zerg uses its detector units and both has some in base and one with its army. Was useful against the Zerg who just burrowed The Zerg going lategame, bult mutalisks, hydralisks and ultralisks, and still some of those essential zerglings which it used to take out a few expansions.
Terran played well also. I did not notice if it repaired its units, but one made a medivac for the first attack group. That is a powerful and important combo. Well, not sure if it was its first, but it did seem to add it to its first group later. Also after loosing its units it actually was already building another army and had it ready by the time the first one was gone. It probably helped that this one came out on top of just about all battles, and had a good income. It used Vikings, Siege Tanks, Marines, Thors and Marauders. A powerful combo.
Even more importantly, it had the siege tanks in the second army set up to defend its main base while making it, and while having its attacking army... well attacking
Cons:
This was my first view of the AI so it might not all be true, but some things that seemed lacking:
Terran vs Siege Tanks - When attacking a siege tank the usually long ranged terran units did not try getting close and personal to avoid the siege cannon. Not sure how that should be put into the tactical AI, but it could be useful.
It seems it might never fall back, but I still prefer this over always falling back.
It seems to need some kind of emergency script. When having lost too many buildings, it needs to rebuild. And it always seems to fail at getting more workers. It might even be using its much needed minerals on building something, almost killing itself being down to one worker already.
Also I think it needs to reevaluate its current work orders. Like more building checks. One Terran got attacked, and had resources, but did not seem to be pumping out whatever troops it could to save its base. It might not have made a difference but the attackers pulled back, to defend somewhere I think. After that it failed having only one SCV and not beginning to pump out more SCVs straight away. Which makes me think it needs emergency modes, where it is low on specific buildings and units. It might already be there, it just did not seem to work in this game.
One thing I would very much like to see is a turtle AI. One that just plays defensive until it survives an attack and has a huge army.
But so far it really seems to be a great AI Good work and thank you all very much.

I have been experimenting some more with the attributes file. Could it be that, partly since it is an XML file, that it is mostly cosmetic? Giving the settings for the Interface to set up the map? Ie. no value to us since the launcher we use choose those settings.
At least that is how I see it. Is it not Lazylaunch1 or 2 that somehow chooses default gamemode or some set gamemode? Which makes me wonder why GameType 3 seems to be the default one in the attributes file.
[/code]    <Variant>
        <Id Value="2"/>
        <Genre Value="1"/>
        <GameType Value="3"/>
        <MaxTeamSize Value="2"/>
        <Name Value="Variant002/Name"/>
        <Description Value="Variant002/Desc"/>
        <IsDefault/>
        <Attribute Id="3010">
            <Locked/>
            <Default>
                <Slot Id="Global"/>
                <Value Id="7955827"/>
            </Default>
        </Attribute>


Quote from: Gamewiz on February 28, 2010, 03:23:38 PM

Quote from: starcrafter64 on February 28, 2010, 03:13:29 PM
Because LAN is not natively supported by the game, I doubt it is possible. I believe games need to be hosted on a server for them to function. If I am wrong and there are basic TCP/IP connection functions built in, please correct me.

Good point. Considering the game will be always connected online via battle.net, there is no reason to have a local network play feature. Damn... Oh well, guess I'll wait for the emu bnet

Yes, but Blizzard will be trying to make some features where Battle Net requires less Internet connection when playing on Bnet2 over LAN. Hopefully that could make it possible to make a LAN feature, but I doubt LAN will be possible before Bnet2 gets emulated, and I doubt that happens before the game is released.

My opening is usually to begin maxing out workers. Before maxing out workers, one of them needs to make the first food place (overlord, supply depot, pylon). Do this so you can keep pumping out workers. I usually go for a very quick expansion, so after having about 12-14 workers, I might pause making more workers to begin the first expansion. It will have me risk getting hurt at the first rush, especially if it is zerg that is rushing, but usually that does not happen because I catch up to the AI fast with my extra resources.
Go for at least 18 workers on minerals (unless it is a smaller than usual mineral place) I am guessing 2-3 workers per mineral ore at the first base. While making all these workers and waiting for the expansion to be done, it should at some point be possible to start making something to make units (barracks, gateway, zergling pit). If Terran or Protoss then make at least 2, because you will need this to catch up with the number of units that might rush you, and possibly take out your expansion.
That should get you going. Usually this opening lets me pick whatever I would like to go for, which is usually varied troops. A bit defense to let the AI get some momentum I guess attacking it from the beginning, especially with this non rush build up, might be challenging as well.
I am not a pro player, but I got a few tips from some friends when I played the first Starcraft game, and some of them were very pro players.

Quote from: itsarabbit on March 02, 2010, 11:50:55 AM

Quote from: ElvishSolution on March 02, 2010, 11:47:09 AM
Blizzard clearly did not make it very difficult whatsoever to crack the game vs AI - they are not a stupid developer and knew full-well that anyone without a beta key was gonna get on the cracked AI band-wagon since it only took about a week to crack this thing, its clear to me that Blizzard purposely made cracking offline play easy.


Battle.net 2.0 on the other hand - it may never be cracked, or at the least, it will take until a retail release and not the beta.  Currently Bnet sends a session unique authorization code when you connect to SC2 Beta servers, and until the crack devs can figure out A. the algorithm (if there is one), or B. the complete list of auth codes, we will not see online play cracked.


In the meantime lets all work together to get some real challenging AI going.

that's why they are emulating battle.net.

Yea, they did all he just explaining with Battle.Net, and now the same thing has to be done with Battle Net 2 which has higher security. They might not have expected people to be able to back engineer the first Battle Net, but know they now, do not expect Blizzard to let BNet2 to be emulated the first month of the beta. I even have a feeling it wont be emulated until after retail version is released, maybe even months after retail is released.
Still I am always surprised at how good crackers and hackers are on this Internet. Usually where there is a will, there is a way