Improved StarCrack AI 5.5 Cheating Version Updated!

[greenbird]

protoss AI uses up most of his minerals from the initial push so if you take his natural he has 4 stargates with no minerals to build a carrier.

Even when he gets carriers , anti air units with ghost +EMP owns them pretty quickly, BCS work well as well.

With protoss mass expand after initial push and get your own carriers, though I usually end the game a lot faster.

Zerg has it easy. Mass upgraded hydras own everything except his main. For some reason AI builds like 20cannons in his base when he starts building his carriers.

But yeah, if you take out his natural he doesn't have enough minerals for carriers. Just a lot of unused gas.

[krutoistudent]

tested ai,
5.5 cheated + china mode

i have to say awesome early game was pretty close Zerg vs Zerg ,
it went mass hyra ling i went one base fast rouches mass, but rouches > hydra lings
anyway he got mutas later and i microed with borrow pretty well (here was his weakness sadly he didnt respond to my borrow micro and i could hold him this way for a few mins till i over massed it and rape the shit out it :-)

anyway by far the best ai and actually you can say here for the first time that you have fun to play the ai, just if it had little better micro, this would make everything perfect (since macro wise its top!)

@ the people who thinks they are good, but can only win by abuse of comp weakness, just a LOL, go play straight forwards, the way you play now wont help you in anyway agains humans

going to play next matchup, will report how it went :

[krutoistudent]

second game here
again mirrow match but this time protoss vs protoss
well his first wave of units was fucking impressive, but since i used a good old scbw strategie i could barly hold (fast dt tech into expo, but the ai is smart and got pretty fast an obs) there where two really close battle after that ai switched to airunis cariers and i just attacked him and GG, carriers are good but only noobs would give you the time to build them :-)

so toss early late game sux since every experienced player will just go and rape the ai while it teching to carriers (takes forever to build them)

btw. with which programm can i make video of my replays? so i could post a youtube video of how to rape this ai in a fair macro battle without anykind of bunkering (mass tanks canons and so on)

[deeptii]

this is so far the AI that has actually beaten me... nice!

[greenbird]

krutoisstudent, you don't know what you are talking about. The AI has 2 different modes of play per race. Try defending ZVZ one hatch roach/ling when he goes roach ling. His first roach/ling push comes out 5minutes before the Hydra build and he attacks with 12lings+8 roaches.
ZvZ there isn't much you can do without defensive structure, and your burrow won't be half way done when he hits unless you 'rushed burrow' with early gas.

Fast DT is abusing computer weakness. Like any other "build" people have to beat the modified AI. It relies on you knowing that it's never going to 'rush' so you can fast tech before he hits with his 10zealots. VS any decent human opponent in PVP you aren't going to be teching straight to DTs if you know they are massing gateways.

It's only the first push where his extra 1000 minerals make it hard to defend against, once you defend that, it's pretty easy to win.

I should time how fast I can beat the AI without going proxy rax/cannon rush.

[Bobosmrade]

I dont like to play those ai cheating versions, because when u send scout u build your strategies about information u get from scouting, and he allready has some buildings, and only one base all time, u cant predict how much resources he has, and how big army he can make it, scouting is wortless and sc2 is basing on scouting. If u win this cheating version, this is far way from the game vs other player.

For me its better to play noncheat version, u can learn more from it.

[krutoistudent]

krutoisstudent, you don't know what you are talking about. The AI has 2 different modes of play per race. Try defending ZVZ one hatch roach/ling when he goes roach ling. His first roach/ling push comes out 5minutes before the Hydra build and he attacks with 12lings+8 roaches.
ZvZ there isn't much you can do without defensive structure, and your burrow won't be half way done when he hits unless you 'rushed burrow' with early gas.

Fast DT is abusing computer weakness. Like any other "build" people have to beat the modified AI. It relies on you knowing that it's never going to 'rush' so you can fast tech before he hits with his 10zealots. VS any decent human opponent in PVP you aren't going to be teching straight to DTs if you know they are massing gateways.

It's only the first push where his extra 1000 minerals make it hard to defend against, once you defend that, it's pretty easy to win.

I should time how fast I can beat the AI without going proxy rax/cannon rush.

how dont i know what i am talking about? are u stupid?
i talk about what happend in the game, am i jesus to know it can build different styles? and what has it todo with me raping the shit out of it? with pur micro? ? and btw i am right now 5-2 in all games the loses where with 2x me as toss vs terran, his first push there seems not to be stoppable by normal play!

now to dt, what the fuck is abuse about using dt? ?? this is a fucking unit of this game and ai had 20sec after my first attack his obs out and dt where eliminated, but since i am not a total newb like you i splitt them to different location so while he was hunting one down i deal damage with the other

now to the point not teching, are total retarded here? ever played this game agains humans? where did i wrote i dint build anything (try to tech to dt with two gas u will notice u have shitlots of overmins), i had a few zealots

and please dont speak to me like you have any clue of this game, i played scbw for a few years was in german wcg (if you even know what that is)
and i played starcraft2 online about 20games now (friend has a key so once in a while i can play)
though my winrating in goldleague is only 60% , but on the other hand i faced people who played 100+++ online matches, while i only have 20, so in the end pretty good and sadly this comps ais are usless right now because of totaly wrong build orders, only thing u can practice here is macro

ah and boy just because you can not get out max eco with your slow apm or what ever reason it is, dont think all other people are as bad as you, i am by far not the only here who can rape this without bunkering and no dts are not an abuse neither are micro moves like borrowing with raoches (you probobly have not even a clue what it does), rouches without borrow are like marines without their stimmpacks, pretty useless, but you will learn this once you can play online and get raped by this way of play

[krutoistudent]

I dont like to play those ai cheating versions, because when u send scout u build your strategies about information u get from scouting, and he allready has some buildings, and only one base all time, u cant predict how much resources he has, and how big army he can make it, scouting is wortless and sc2 is basing on scouting. If u win this cheating version, this is far way from the game vs other player.

For me its better to play noncheat version, u can learn more from it.

you have a total valid reason
but the problem right now with the no cheating version, they start to sux after the earlygame (basicly 7-8min you can finish them when you have the right unit mix)

[greenbird]

16minutes beat TVT on LT , though 3 minutes of it was taken up killing his buildings, could probably manage 15 minutes if I built my 2nd fact/rax closer to his base. On a smaller map could probably win a bit faster

Bobosmrade: AI starts off with about 1000gas/minerals at start which is how he builds his mass buildings from start. Scouting is useful to figure out which build AI will send. There are 2 build types per race. And you are wrong, I've seen the AI create 4 CCS if you give it mapcontrol. It expands to its natural straight after its initial push.

The non cheat version is way too easy, that's the problem. I could win by giving the computer a 3minute headstart or win in first 3minutes with a 6ling rush. The cheat version(non chinese version) is only semi hard at the start. The chinese cheat which most people are talking about here, is the hardest AI to beat, but even then it's mid game tactic is horrible.

I just want to play vs an AI without winning by playing with mouse only and if the AI starts off with 1000minerals, yeah so be it.

[greenbird]

You are a newb, you are 'boasting' about beating an AI that a lot of people have beaten dozens of times. Fast DT tech vs mass gateways is a valid strategy? No, you are abusing the fact you know the AI won't be attacking with its 4zealots even if you have 0 until it creates another 4.

The problem I have with you is that you can 'beat' AI without abusing the system. Fast DT tech no cannons, no zealots isn't a valid strategy vs anyone. Especially knowing he has 4zealots out when your DT structure isn't finished.

If you read earlier before you posted I said fast DT tech is one of the ways to win, because you can abuse the fact it won't rush.

This isn't a forum for starcraft2 strategies vs other players, but how to beat cheating AI. Because it starts off with 1000minerals more at start , all strategies in beating the AI revolves around knowing when he attacks and which units he is sending.

If you really think you are pro because you learnt how to fast tech to DT, you are an idiot.

No ones here to discuss 'tactics' to beat other players , but discussion about beating AI.

I'd love to see anyone who can win vs this cheating AI going a build order they would normally go vs another human player. Etc If I scout and see opponent making 2 gateways I'd do the same thing, the difference being this opponent will have 4gateways while you have 2.

[gile23]

A lot of pros here xd.

@greenbird I do like this against protoss, i expand in about 5-th minute, when enemy comes to me (protoss) i have more units than he has, 3 warp gates, going on zealots + stalkers. You want to play aggresive ok play like that, i played also like that (not chinese AI) i kicked him out in my base and started going, imagine, when i comed to his base he had about 10 zealots + about 5-10 stalkers + collosus + 2 immortals in that time i had about this 15 zealots + 5 stalkers + 1 immortal, i blasted all his army in my base he made that in about 3 minutes, sorry man but that s impossible against human player. It ll be great if they can enable playing against multiple AI-s, like in SC1, i think that emulating Bnet server is pretty hard and will take some time .

Let s step on. Protoss is the hardest AI, zerg doesn t make ultralisk-s even if he has A lot of money. EMP owns them yee, when they don t recognize invisible targets that s a great tactic against realtime player, you won t be able to get to the shortcut on the keyboard for EMP, carriers will blast out that Ghost. Play like that you are playing against human player, don t bug ai on some stupid ways, also it s stupid to make dark templars when they have low chance of discovering them (except terran). In my opinion zerg is the weakest race in beta, not pretty strong except roaches which are good on beggining, protoss (warping) + terrans(reapers + battlecruisers which are now much stronger than those ones in SC1) are the best races, in a full game probably all races will be balanced, now it s quite unballanced. And one more thing when i send scout, that s when i make pylon, protoss has about 2-3 zealots in his base, pretty weak isn t it .

[Einherjar]

Great A.I, its way more fun then vanilla 5.5, IMO.
I noticed the updated version left out the A.I identification (when the a.i. says "gl hf" at the begining), will this feature return in future release ? it was awesome.
Edit: Ok i got it working, thanks.

[krutoistudent]

You are a newb, you are 'boasting' about beating an AI that a lot of people have beaten dozens of times. Fast DT tech vs mass gateways is a valid strategy? No, you are abusing the fact you know the AI won't be attacking with its 4zealots even if you have 0 until it creates another 4.

The problem I have with you is that you can 'beat' AI without abusing the system. Fast DT tech no cannons, no zealots isn't a valid strategy vs anyone. Especially knowing he has 4zealots out when your DT structure isn't finished.

If you read earlier before you posted I said fast DT tech is one of the ways to win, because you can abuse the fact it won't rush.

This isn't a forum for starcraft2 strategies vs other players, but how to beat cheating AI. Because it starts off with 1000minerals more at start , all strategies in beating the AI revolves around knowing when he attacks and which units he is sending.

If you really think you are pro because you learnt how to fast tech to DT, you are an idiot.

No ones here to discuss 'tactics' to beat other players , but discussion about beating AI.

I'd love to see anyone who can win vs this cheating AI going a build order they would normally go vs another human player. Etc If I scout and see opponent making 2 gateways I'd do the same thing, the difference being this opponent will have 4gateways while you have 2.

seem i am talking with a braindeath guy huh?
are serious that dumb? or you can not read?

you WRITE I DO STUF BECAUSE I KNOW?
read 100000000x times my first post then maybe you will notice something?
if not i tell you, my first game agains this ai was a zerg vs zerg, i played standard roach mass one base (yes newbie this is what every one in platin and gold palys in zvz and nothing more, i dont know what people in newbs league are playing) and won without any kind of abuse, simple outmicroed his 3 to 1 armee , you know hydra slower then roaches so i could snipe all lings without taking damage (lings dont do any to roaches) and after roaches >>>> hydra, so now tell me where was the trick i used to win???
ohhhhhhhh right you see i beat this crap ai in fair fight but then you will argue it has other build with which it probably would beat me?! who cares , did not i won fair?

now second game i played pvp and won with dt as fast tech (which helped me abit, because toss had to kill them before he could attack me, i harassed in different places of his bases, after they were down he attacked me with his 30stalker10zealots+some more units and he outnumbered me 2to1 but still i survived and won because after that he switched to air!!!!! and cariers are trash (good when u have a few of them, but to make that u need time, ididnt give him time)
okay now you are argueing that i did it because i know, that he attacks late? how should i know that?? i simple played a well knowen and often used strategie from scbw dt rush into nexus, the point here is that you have because of cronoboost so much more minerals i just build constantly out of one gate zealots and yes boy i could hold of a rush from 2gates with that, cronoboost works for unit production aswell, so one gate can do big things

anyway be happy with this comp and clain to have any clue about this game while u dont have, i dont care really
right now i very happy, i just got a beta key in this new key wave ;-) , so anyone who didnt check today his account should do , hope some more got it
gooooood luck anyone and enjoy the game

[gg.sc2]

gg2 from your posting it's obvious you don't know what you are talking about.
A good terran player can kill a lurker with a single marine by abusing the cooldown timings for attack in sc1. Starcraft 1 AI would auto attack nearest threat which is why decent players can 'dance' units around people who didn't micro them at all. Agro the zealots with 1 ling then hit the furthest zealot with the other 5 and swap ling positions so they never get hit more than twice. Mainly because it takes 3 zealot hits to kill a ling. While 2 hits from 5lings kill a zealot. This is assuming you aren't playing a player but the computers default auto attack controls.

In starcraft 2 the dancing doesn't work effectively in that the unit will stop chasing and go back on the default path after a few seconds if it can't hit the unit.

Easiest way I found to defeat AI zealots is simply to constantly dance units while your defensive structure hits it. AI priortises units first so with 1-2 units keep moving back and forth while your range units/structure hits it. Requires careful micro or your units die pretty quickly. Can't do this vs any other units because lings are faster and rines have range. Killed the initial 10zealot rush with 4lings and 2sunks this way.

Claushouse  with TVP either build a bunker at chokepoint with supply/rax and have 3-4 scvs repairing. Have a scout scv ahead so you know when he moves out, that's when you pull your scvs from base to repair. I usually have about 6 rines and my tank ends up popping during the battle.

BO is 9 rax 10upgraded CC and gas/supply depot 12 factory 14-16 supply depending on whether you want to wallblock using supply or bunker. Main thing in terran is to constantly use the mule, which is why rax before supply. A mule equals 6scvs. Pumping out rines meanwhile.
This works vs zerg/toss , but vs terran you need to cut down on minerals faster and have your gas out earlier so your tank comes out with SIEGE earlier. If you time it right, your tank gets siege just before they hit and with 8rines with 4 in a bunker you should barely win.

Toss is easiest to win with either 14nexus (expand) 15gate/forge and end up with 2-3zealots + 3cannons to win. Must stress the use of chronosphere, gotta keep spaming it on gateway or nexus to get your units out faster. 2-3zealots blocking a choke with cannon support pretty much forces AI to retreat.  Or if you aren't good at expanding fast, gateway with 2-3zealots+2 sentry  +2cannons pretty much wins as well. Another is fast dts, quick gas and don't build any defensive structure make late 2nd gateway and pump out 2dts and put them on hold on choke. Chronosphere boost on gateways so they come out just in time to block.

Zerg 14 2nd hatch14 pool by the time your pool finishes so should your 2nd hatch. Make sure 2nd hatch is built on choke point so you can create your defensive structures there. 2-3 sunkens(can make more if you feel you need to) +8lings +queen+drones if needed stops any rush.

Best things about my specific builds is that you aren't behind economically and you actually start matching the AIs resource pool once you hold off defending.

Terran has it easiest to win quickly, after the initial rush push out with 2tanks +12rines+4marauders +4scvs. Bunker down on his natural and GG.
You win with ez with protoss with zealots 2sentries and 2 collusus. Nothing the AI has at that point can stop it. 
Zergs the only race you can't beat the AI within 20minutes , but pretty ez to win anyway.

Okay, I don't know what I'm talking about. Fine. But I would love to see you kill 4 of my zealots with 6 of your lings. Yeah, you can't. You're talking about COMP zealots. Anybody can do that, retard. And I never said anything about lurkers and marines. But I bet my lurks will own your sorry ass rines anyday if you think 1 marine by itself will do anything to a lurk. Where's your med? Your vessel? Heck, even your scan? Hell, why even morph a hydra into a lurk vs 1 marine. Do you get my point now? Shit looks good on paper but if you don't do it in a game, what's the point?
And why are you lecturing me about dancing? You can micro without dancing your units. You just said it.
You talk big man, even supporting your arguments with what you think is the only way something will work. Stop, please. If you want to prove a point, give us a link. A video please, of all your claims.

You know what? Why don't you give us all your bnet name for SC1 so we can play a match with you? Preferably on iccup. Come on. Give it.

Edit: After having finishing read your post, I remembered what your problem is. You play like you're playing against a comp. I've asked before, but why don't you play like you're playing against a real person? Let me guess, you're just going to go off on something about it being impossible to win because of not being able to dance and micro because SC2 is different, and the AI uses "sheer numbers" to win. Damn, you're ignorant. If you can't win, just say so. People have won, and without playing your "defensive" style. If you can't win without playing that way, don't be a dick and try to prove it to everyone that it's impossible and that we all are bullshitting you.

[manfredmustermann]

Why dont you guys relaxe a little?

There is no point in "Playing with the cheating AI like you would against a human player", simply because it is CHEATING, wich means that the AI will have MORE units then it is possible to build without cheating, so you NEED to abuse the fact, that the AI wont attack in the very first seconds/minutes of the game. You need to mine the ressources the AI already has (by cheating), that is why you can not win if you do something like a 9 pool because even if you survive the first attack you simply dont have the ressources to survive the second attack.

i played some zvt today and won them, but you can only win by beeing extremly abusive, just because the AI will not only have a massive first attack (esp. the one with the reapers is hard, since reapers rape zerglings) but it will tech ultra fast to 2-3 BattleCruisers and if you dont have enough Hydralsiks at that moment you will simply die.

So there is no point in "playing like against a human player" because guess what, the cheating AI CHEATS and you are already far behind if the game starts, so you need to make a good comeback and you can only do that by getting some ressources really fast.