DarkBlizz

Quote from: Bedervet on March 02, 2010, 07:21:07 AM
Off topic mode on// The main problem is not the spelling of words, even english people makes mistakes, my goal is that people understand what I say
//Off topic mode off

About blink and other capacity, I just want to notice that AI devs have already make progress.
I'am fed up with ppl complaining "Ai iz too weak, its not like playing vs humanz"
Sure but we have to remenber that SC1 AI was cheated, this one is more complexe to complete and we can be happy to play a better AI that the legit beta player are.

AIs aren't weak play goose's AI. It's pretty good (except for zerg, seems to be pretty weak for some reason).
I reckon AI will get harder and harder. Unlike wc3/sc1 there won't any opportunity for people to create a good AI (condition being that we can't code anything yet except for AI).

Quote from: Artanis186 on March 02, 2010, 06:51:26 AM

Quote from: Bedervet on March 02, 2010, 06:42:28 AM
Hi everyone,

I want to talk about the AI micro, I  mean it is not  as crap as we can guess.
For exemple, Toss flee every times you have a bigger army, but try to get back, take damages (terrible, terrible) and go back again. That's how the AI lose.

But when your army is smaller than the AI army, he uses capacity like blink or whatever. It means, that the micro, is already here, but with wrong settings...

I saw differents kind of situations: AI have a lot of basic units (zealots immortals...)  but you have more...;  they will flee.

They can have a few powerfull units like carriers, even if you have a huge army they will attack you withe the BCs or carriers...

My point is, the units are identified with values, each kind of units have a value more powerfull she is, higher is the value.
When the AI attack, he compare the value of his army to your. If you have bette value , he will run.

So, the micro AI problem, must be due to a simple conditional script...


Sorry for my  crappy englis, I hope you understand what I mean....

Ya, I also noticed the Stalkers blink away and attack. That's pretty cool.

(Off-topic) Does anyone else find it ironic that the 1 word most people misspell is English, specifically when they're apologizing at how it is not good.

Funny I thought it was the verb "misspell".

Anyway the problem is Stalkers will do that even though there is Siege Tank in Siege Mode in range. =_=

I hope v6.0 is better, as of right now v4 of goose's AI is far superior.

Quote from: thedarkdream on March 02, 2010, 06:27:35 AM
Just now, the mothership isn't THAT strong, its abilities don't justify why you can only have one of them. When thinking about a MOTHERSHIP, you won't think of comparing it to an arbiter.
And as its damage got nerfed too... I don't think it's much stronger than a battlecruiser. (haven't tried though)

It's still quite powerful and vortex turns the battle around, imagine suddenly fighting only half of their army. Recall is also still good but since P can proxy pylon it's not as good I guess.
Don't compare to Arbiter because this thing has vortex.'

Funny thing though, one Ghost EMP -> gg mothership

My Experience:
TvT I massed huge amounts of tanks and he went battle cruisers. Did not expect that.
I only managed to win by massing Thors which absolutely owned BCs.

This is far superior compared to v5.5. Though the builds are somewhat the same.
Two ways for cheap wins,
1: Rush (Though I failed the first time, it's not as easy, AI masses tier 1 units. You kind of have to do a cheese; 2 barracks lift)
2: Turtle then mass Thors (100% chance win rate, with this)

Now if AIs are able to build counter units this AI will be ownage.

AI Info:
I'll explain this AI in terms of Terran
In the Early Phase, there will be a wave or Marines and Marauders. Of course this can be repelled by Siege Tanks and supply depots.
In Mid Game, AI gets few Thors and charges with Marines and maybe one siege tank? Can't remember. This can again be repelled by Siege Tanks + any unit (preferably Thor)
In End Game, no Thors, no nothing just mass Battlecruisers (Maybe I saw few marines)

Same formula for all races
Tier 1 or 1.5 then straight to Final Tier.

Brownie Points:
Something I noticed. The AIs don't expand to their neutrals until later in the game. Which is good because it's harder to rush them.

goose, this one doesn't load, prob wrong version
Better fix and reupload.

Quote from: cliffton on March 02, 2010, 01:16:38 AM

Quote from: ooni on March 01, 2010, 06:33:27 AM
It does not consume a lot of resources early game making the overall game stronger

Consuming fewer resources is never a good thing.

It is when you are consuming less at the start to spam more higher tier units later or save enough money for expansion.
this is called "teching". You probably never played SC b4 so yeah, that's how that works.

Quote from: SanctifiedDevil on March 02, 2010, 12:21:05 AM
Just played my first game of v5.5

1/1/1/1 - T/T/P/Z

Zerg cleared the terran and toss. The terran ran and slowly built its forces back up, I had one siege tank keeping the terran from building much and later I pulled it away for reinforcements..I looked back over and they had a huge base pumping out vikings. The zerg contently splashed on my walls I sent 6 Thors in at zerg as in the other AIs this was usually enough, however, they didn't even make it to any of the zerg bases. After that I seen the zerg had pretty much taken the whole map over except what the terrans were holding on to. They sent one last rush in and forced their way in and destroyed my main base. They came straight after my expansion that I had a planetary fortress exp. on. I put all my scvs on the fortress repairing and held off a wave or two..before I could get much built up they took it also.

Pros:
-1000x better. A lot more of a challenge.
-consistently attacked with nice size waves.
-They never gave up and continued to expand over the whole map.
-It seemed to me they noticed their waves weren't big enough. So they kept making them bigger and bigger till they got through.

Cons:
-They still retreat and do the whole pacing thing (I know you guys can't figure that one out)
-Still don't upgrade anything
-Still don't respond to nukes (Hit em 3 times with one.)

Funny cause Protoss I played against upgraded blink O_O
Terran I played upgraded siege mode

You prob mean researching weapons and stuff. Yeah, I'm sure they will in later versions.

Quote from: cyricc on March 01, 2010, 11:25:12 PM

Quote from: David on March 01, 2010, 11:12:18 PM

Quote from: douche1337 on March 01, 2010, 11:01:22 PM
Starcraft 2: DOTA

Do you guys think it'll happen?
This may be too early...but...

As of now:

1) "Heroes" that already exist may include queen, thor, mothership(?) but of course any unit can be designated as a unique "hero."

2) No units seem to have the ability to store "Items" in a "stash."

3) Galaxy Map editor: Hopefully when this comes out, one will be able to create a DOTA-like map and corresponding triggers to generate creep waves can be easily done as well. 

Main problem: NO ITEMS? 

as of now, no, it isn't possible.. but like you said once the galaxy map editor comes out, it definitely will happen  patience young one.

Thing about WC3 is that units were specifically designated as hero units in the normal game, you could make them as allies. This means that the editor allowed you to access the hero units specifically and edit their stats, stat gains, and with more robust editors, icons, sounds, and models.

With SC2, there are no real heros, even in SC the heros were just other units, with no real "hero" properties. The changes of seeing DOTA as it was in WC3 is rare, however, if you look at Blizz's Starcraft 2 Battle.Net update, you will see in a screenshot of the lobby that 1 of the games on there is DOTA... so maybe...

One of the Blizzard representatives in Blizzcon stated there are heroes in the game that level up in campaign. There will definitely be heroes in the game. Plus they said the custom edit of heroes are more flexible in SC2. ALSO there were leveling units for Protoss in the early builds (though they only leveled up once).

Quote from: koolitseric on March 01, 2010, 10:15:42 PM

Quote from: ooni on March 01, 2010, 06:33:27 AM
Bad things about both of AI (a.k.a. suggestions)
Both AIs suffer in terms of moving their units back when they are able to win the battle and not moving back when they will subsequently lose.

No one knows what does that yet, so you can't really complain about it.

Actually play version v5.5 you will be pleasantly surprised.

Quote from: Hades on March 01, 2010, 09:40:35 PM
I sure hope we can still use the classic trigger system... i never even tried warcraft 3, nor have i ever played with their editor

:O wc3 has much much better system and 100x easier. Less limitations.
They are going to go with the wc3 world editorish program. Don't worry it will be easy.

I just played v5.5
Few changes.
Units don't back out of fight often.
Stalkers have blink and uses it.
Some upgrades are researched.

Post any more findings.

Quote from: ReVoke on March 01, 2010, 08:35:56 PM
Well thats kinda a good thing, Faster the beta ends is faster they might get Open Beta or even Release Starcraft II

Blizzard lets you play open beta now?
Though that is my fervent wish.

Quote from: Dariusz on March 01, 2010, 07:56:16 PM
THIS IS A KICK ASS AI !


1ST time I lost to AI lol...


Protos are perfect mate!
first few mins are normal..(other ai would already attacked me) So I got plenty of time to build up (enought to get 30 marins from 3 barracks and start making tanks)


The first rushes are quite normal.. Nothing special.. 3 tanks 2 bunkers 20 marins and medic can defend it easily... But then he send those bigg battle ships that spawn 8 units... Easy too but then... woo then he brought Mothership with invisible units ...That was begining of problems... Wave after that once he brought those big laser things that can go up and down I was done... GZ kewickviper That is Kick ass AI !


Btw was playing on normal one (no cheats)...
w8 to see terrans/zerg ups :]
Gz cya around I go train to own that ai !

if you go mass marines and marauders theres nothing this protoss AI do about it, don't even have to turtle.

Quote from: Pulas on March 01, 2010, 08:00:52 PM
Hey!
Tried the ai, but it did not work for me. 1v1 pvz on desert oasis, the zerg ai just built a single hidra and 2 lings. nothing else. not even workers. just some buildings.
No idea why it happened, as the other 5.1 works well.
Btw keep it up!

Yeah, zergs seem to just spread over the map without units. Don't rush them wait until they have 3 expansions and wait few minutes. XP

As a map maker I'm looking forward to Galaxy Map Editor more than anything.
I'm pretty sure I read somewhere Galaxy Map Editor won't be released in beta stages. Let's wait and see.

No longer has instant teleport
Instead has recall (same as sc1 arbitor's recall)

No more chronosphere

Huge nerf imo, but chronosphere wasn't that useful to begin with.