StarCrack AI Official Feedback Thread (V5.5)

[Bedervet]

Hi everyone,

I want to talk about the AI micro, I  mean it is not  as crap as we can guess.
For exemple, Toss flee every times you have a bigger army, but try to get back, take damages (terrible, terrible) and go back again. That's how the AI lose.

But when your army is smaller than the AI army, he uses capacity like blink or whatever. It means, that the micro, is already here, but with wrong settings...

I saw differents kind of situations: AI have a lot of basic units (zealots immortals...)  but you have more...;  they will flee.

They can have a few powerfull units like carriers, even if you have a huge army they will attack you withe the BCs or carriers...

My point is, the units are identified with values, each kind of units have a value more powerfull she is, higher is the value.
When the AI attack, he compare the value of his army to your. If you have bette value , he will run.

So, the micro AI problem, must be due to a simple conditional script...


Sorry for my  crappy englis, I hope you understand what I mean....

[Artanis186]

Hi everyone,

I want to talk about the AI micro, I  mean it is not  as crap as we can guess.
For exemple, Toss flee every times you have a bigger army, but try to get back, take damages (terrible, terrible) and go back again. That's how the AI lose.

But when your army is smaller than the AI army, he uses capacity like blink or whatever. It means, that the micro, is already here, but with wrong settings...

I saw differents kind of situations: AI have a lot of basic units (zealots immortals...)  but you have more...;  they will flee.

They can have a few powerfull units like carriers, even if you have a huge army they will attack you withe the BCs or carriers...

My point is, the units are identified with values, each kind of units have a value more powerfull she is, higher is the value.
When the AI attack, he compare the value of his army to your. If you have bette value , he will run.

So, the micro AI problem, must be due to a simple conditional script...


Sorry for my  crappy englis, I hope you understand what I mean....

Ya, I also noticed the Stalkers blink away and attack. That's pretty cool.

(Off-topic) Does anyone else find it ironic that the 1 word most people misspell is English, specifically when they're apologizing at how it is not good.

[ooni]

Hi everyone,

I want to talk about the AI micro, I  mean it is not  as crap as we can guess.
For exemple, Toss flee every times you have a bigger army, but try to get back, take damages (terrible, terrible) and go back again. That's how the AI lose.

But when your army is smaller than the AI army, he uses capacity like blink or whatever. It means, that the micro, is already here, but with wrong settings...

I saw differents kind of situations: AI have a lot of basic units (zealots immortals...)  but you have more...;  they will flee.

They can have a few powerfull units like carriers, even if you have a huge army they will attack you withe the BCs or carriers...

My point is, the units are identified with values, each kind of units have a value more powerfull she is, higher is the value.
When the AI attack, he compare the value of his army to your. If you have bette value , he will run.

So, the micro AI problem, must be due to a simple conditional script...


Sorry for my  crappy englis, I hope you understand what I mean....

Ya, I also noticed the Stalkers blink away and attack. That's pretty cool.

(Off-topic) Does anyone else find it ironic that the 1 word most people misspell is English, specifically when they're apologizing at how it is not good.

Funny I thought it was the verb "misspell".

Anyway the problem is Stalkers will do that even though there is Siege Tank in Siege Mode in range. =_=

I hope v6.0 is better, as of right now v4 of goose's AI is far superior.

[Bedervet]

Off topic mode on// The main problem is not the spelling of words, even english people makes mistakes, my goal is that people understand what I say
//Off topic mode off

About blink and other capacity, I just want to notice that AI devs have already make progress.
I'am fed up with ppl complaining "Ai iz too weak, its not like playing vs humanz"
Sure but we have to remenber that SC1 AI was cheated, this one is more complexe to complete and we can be happy to play a better AI that the legit beta player are.

[thedarkdream]

I think the current AI is quite ok, indeed (except for the archon/carrier in toss @ 5.1, havent tested 5.5 yet (tried, but game  crashed, should re-download probably?)
The main thing if to increase diversity, as you said you'd do. I don't know about War3 AI, but I edited some SC1 AI in my youth, hehe. And there were so many random jumps to other scripts, so many possibilities. That's what made SC1 AI interesting (though weak, most of them).
You're giving up a lot of your time for this, good luck!
p.s. c code? thought they had another ai scripting language created, as in SC1. Nice for versatility.

[ooni]

Off topic mode on// The main problem is not the spelling of words, even english people makes mistakes, my goal is that people understand what I say
//Off topic mode off

About blink and other capacity, I just want to notice that AI devs have already make progress.
I'am fed up with ppl complaining "Ai iz too weak, its not like playing vs humanz"
Sure but we have to remenber that SC1 AI was cheated, this one is more complexe to complete and we can be happy to play a better AI that the legit beta player are.

AIs aren't weak play goose's AI. It's pretty good (except for zerg, seems to be pretty weak for some reason).
I reckon AI will get harder and harder. Unlike wc3/sc1 there won't any opportunity for people to create a good AI (condition being that we can't code anything yet except for AI).

[Artanis186]

Anyway the problem is Stalkers will do that even though there is Siege Tank in Siege Mode in range. =_=

Heh, silly AI.

I hope v6.0 is better, as of right now v4 of goose's AI is far superior.

Gotta agree with that.

The main problem is not the spelling of words, even english people makes mistakes, my goal is that people understand what I say

Ya, it wasn't only directed at you, I just found it ironic, considering most people that apologize for it misspell it. I understand you perfectly though, which isn't always common. ^.^

[JPeterson]

- AI doesn't build defences in expands

I'll put some focus on this, I'm pretty sure I can do it easily.

How would you do that? I think all AISetStock for buildings goes in the main. And we can't tell it to post units at expansions. Is there a special function for expansion protection?

Besides it's not the optimal strategy to have any more expansion protection than a few turrets and a bunker possibly. The AI should ideally see that an attack on an expansion is impending and send units to intercept. Although it doesn't really do that, it only sends protection when the attack has already begun.

[SSimOO]

~Delete~

[bustya]

Still way too easy. And unlike 5.0, the AI in 5.5 doesn't evolve. I played TvT and they sent vikings the entire tech game. My seige tanks and turrets wern't even touched!

The AI should mass a bunch of units and Attack Move to my base, and pull back when 50% of the units have been destroyed to re-mass units.

[bustya]

Forget the micro back and forth dance with AI. It simply doesn't work and makes it way too easy to destroy the enemy slowly but surely.

[Kernel64]

- AI doesn't build defences in expands

I'll put some focus on this, I'm pretty sure I can do it easily.

How would you do that? I think all AISetStock for buildings goes in the main. And we can't tell it to post units at expansions. Is there a special function for expansion protection?

Besides it's not the optimal strategy to have any more expansion protection than a few turrets and a bunker possibly. The AI should ideally see that an attack on an expansion is impending and send units to intercept. Although it doesn't really do that, it only sends protection when the attack has already begun.

I think there's a function that allows you to specify where the building is to be built. I have no clue yet how to work this. Maybe using townOne, townTwo, etc.? Or using SetMainTown?

I am quite sure though that if you want the AI to expand, the numbers for minerals and gas are compared to the remaining minerals and gas of owned expos.

So, say the main has 12000 min, 5000 gas, if the AI has 1 expo, and you want it to expand 3rd, use the defaultexpand with say, 24000 min and 10000 gas. The ai will expand.

It doesn't expand though when a destructible rock is there. If you destroy it, the AI will expand there.

[GurU]

Zerg is expanding even if there are rocks on his way (but not when they are standing in place where a hatchery should be)

[dodongbadong]

wow this is the greatest non cheating ai so far i have tried.. very good to practice with.. 

[JPeterson]

Forget the micro back and forth dance with AI. It simply doesn't work and makes it way too easy to destroy the enemy slowly but surely.

You could try and turn it off partially or completely. If you turn on DEBUG_ATTACK_STATE in MeleeAI.galaxy you will see a flurry of messages during a battle for the attack/scared/retreat states. With the help of that you may be able to trace the code for it and change it.

I think there's a function that allows you to specify where the building is to be built. I have no clue yet how to work this. Maybe using townOne, townTwo, etc.? Or using SetMainTown?

That would be interesting if we can find that.

I am quite sure though that if you want the AI to expand, the numbers for minerals and gas are compared to the remaining minerals and gas of owned expos.

So, say the main has 12000 min, 5000 gas, if the AI has 1 expo, and you want it to expand 3rd, use the defaultexpand with say, 24000 min and 10000 gas. The ai will expand.

That's correct. You find the same explanation in the galaxy wiki here.

Zerg is expanding even if there are rocks on his way (but not when they are standing in place where a hatchery should be)

It doesn't expand though when a destructible rock is there. If you destroy it, the AI will expand there.

There is a comment about it in the galaxy wiki here. "The AI will destroy destructible rocks that are in the way of the optimal hall placement. However, it will not as of r14093 destroy destructible rocks to reach an expansions, like in Kulas Ravine. "