StarCrack AI Official Feedback Thread (V5.5)

[Gr!mm]

Guys you will have to realise that some of the things that have came up will be because of the actual game itself not the AI, remember ITS STILL IN BETA things will not be fair and even.

[notquitefob]

Tried this out last night and it's definitely a noticeable improvement from v3/4


Good: 


- I massed M/M w/ Terran, and went out mid game to attack.  My sound was off, and before I realized, my base had gotten wiped out by a team of Stalker/Zealots even though I left behind two bunkers and 3 siege tanks.  Definitely a bit harder than v3/4.


- Terran enemy will harass early/mid game with helions, which made the game more interesting as things progress. 


- Not as much "single build" strategies and more of a mix of units.  Earlier versions tend to have all Vikings, all Archons, etc. strategies.


Constructive Criticism:


- Playing metalopolis, when I'm on high ground, I can shoot at passing enemies with Stalkers and rather than coming up to attack me, they sort of just run back and forth underneath.  I had 2-3 zealots @ the ramp, so it was definitely not a threat for the 9-10 roaches that I was shooting at.  Reminds me of the behavior of enemies in SC1 when you turtle in with Supply Depots.


- If you don't attack early game, one AI usually will get taken out by another AI, which makes the game easier because by mid game, a second AI will usually lose as well.  If you put up a solid defense and tech up, you can stay untouched until end game and just take out the last AI.  It's been asked if melee 1v3 could be enabled versus 4 player FFA.


- Terrans are smart enough to scan for cloaked enemies when under attack, but Zerg/Toss are not smart enough to have detectors when roaming about.  Was able to easily wipe out Zergs with DTs by waiting for them to leave their base in masses and then going in with Zeals to finish the base.


Big thanks to the StarCrack team for providing us with someone to play with... the sandbox was awesome, but definitely got old after an hr or two = ) 


One additional comment is that I feel like the StarCrack AI v5.5 as is already feels better than the SC1 one built by Blizz = p

[undeadnightorc]

First of all thank you so much for all your work. I've been dying to try out sc2 beta for a while and this gets me a chance to get familiar with the game.

Here's my experience with the latest AI 5.5.  I notice that the AI (as zerg, protoss or terran) will launch several attacks early on, wave after wave (this has made me lose my first few games). But once I got more experience with the game I was able to beat back these attacks and proceed to easily finish the AI because it simply didn't generate the same amount of troops it did in the beginning.

I'll play a few more games to see if it repeats this pattern.

[Crazed]

First of all thank you so much for all your work. I've been dying to try out sc2 beta for a while and this gets me a chance to get familiar with the game.

Here's my experience with the latest AI 5.5.  I notice that the AI (as zerg, protoss or terran) will launch several attacks early on, wave after wave (this has made me lose my first few games). But once I got more experience with the game I was able to beat back these attacks and proceed to easily finish the AI because it simply didn't generate the same amount of troops it did in the beginning.

I'll play a few more games to see if it repeats this pattern.

I've got the same experiences as well, maybe you should give it something like 20x minerals. Or you can give it unlimited resources and then limit its APM to 200 or 300. Or: find a way to make the AI always get 2x the income you (the player) are getting so it won't run dry in the mid-late game.

Still I gotta give you props for making this AI, it did kick my ass a couple of times, including one game where it went to late game and the AI busts out 12 carriers... = gg lol

[pixartist]

First of all thank you so much for all your work. I've been dying to try out sc2 beta for a while and this gets me a chance to get familiar with the game.

Here's my experience with the latest AI 5.5.  I notice that the AI (as zerg, protoss or terran) will launch several attacks early on, wave after wave (this has made me lose my first few games). But once I got more experience with the game I was able to beat back these attacks and proceed to easily finish the AI because it simply didn't generate the same amount of troops it did in the beginning.

I'll play a few more games to see if it repeats this pattern.

I've got the same experiences as well, maybe you should give it something like 20x minerals. Or you can give it unlimited resources and then limit its APM to 200 or 300. Or: find a way to make the AI always get 2x the income you (the player) are getting so it won't run dry in the mid-late game.

Still I gotta give you props for making this AI, it did kick my ass a couple of times, including one game where it went to late game and the AI busts out 12 carriers... = gg lol

I don't think a lack of resources is the problem, the AI just seems to get a bit passive after it's first attack sometimes

[Swarmling]

Great job guys works really well almost like facing a real person cause they have to scout in order to see your base and were u are which is really cool anther thing is i like how they try and rush and run away if they lose 1-2 units when my army is bigger and then he pumps more units and trys again its really run but the only way to have a fun battle is to rush the ai cause end game hes weaker it seems  i can just mass way more units then he can and theres notthing he can do about it and cool thing was i saw the Protoss ai upg hes armor and attack once but he just had alot of zealots  no stalkers  or anything just about 14 zealots and +1 to attack and armor it was really hard to handle but roaches can handle anything with good micro

good AI job cant wait for v6 keep it comming     STARCRAFT 2 IS EVERYTHING I COULD WISH FOR... BLIZZARD I LOVE U    ALREADY PRE-ORDER i say zerglings should be able to jump down cliffs  .. but not climb up the cliff

[Gamewiz]

Great job guys works really well almost like facing a real person cause they have to scout in order to see your base and were u are which is really cool anther thing is i like how they try and rush and run away if they lose 1-2 units when my army is bigger and then he pumps more units and trys again its really run but the only way to have a fun battle is to rush the ai cause end game hes weaker it seems  i can just mass way more units then he can and theres notthing he can do about it and cool thing was i saw the Protoss ai upg hes armor and attack once but he just had alot of zealots  no stalkers  or anything just about 14 zealots and +1 to attack and armor it was really hard to handle but roaches can handle anything with good micro

Periods are your friend.

[ScubaSteve3465]

Can someone let me know if this problem has been fixed in version 5.5 yet. Sorry if this has already been answered.

They go back and forth when encounter player, eventually waste so many units while falling back and suddenly go for attack. (Very serious problem, they waste units on going for attack and fall back then go attack and then fall back.)

[Gamewiz]

Can someone let me know if this problem has been fixed in version 5.5 yet. Sorry if this has already been answered.

They go back and forth when encounter player, eventually waste so many units while falling back and suddenly go for attack. (Very serious problem, they waste units on going for attack and fall back then go attack and then fall back.)

No, and it might not be able to be fixed. They are very limited in what they can work with, because Blizzard only gave them one version of AI to work with, and it was a dumbed down version of the very easy AI.

[ElvishSolution]

@ScubaSteve3465 - As stated below, Blizzard included only a very streamlined (in other words moronic) AI - this is for obvious reasons because this Beta is meant to test solely the online play, and to make it as balanced as possible for retail.  Eventually we may see this fixed with cracked AI, but it will take a long time for the devs to build up the command lists that Blizzard has not included in the Beta release.


On AI:


First of all I'd like to say that v5.5 is leaps and bounds above v5.1 - that said the AI still has its problems, but progress is definitely being made.


Zerg:


Zerg AI has a massive (30 or so) Zergling attack at 6 minutes, and at 10-12 minutes it returns with as many Zerglings, and about 20 roaches in support.  Roughly 15 minutes in it returns with 40 Zerglings, 25 Roaches, a handful of hydras, couple of infestors.


Mid to late game the Zerg AI really falls apart, it keeps pumping the same army it has all game, and once in a while I saw it add in a few Mutalisk/Ultralisks.  Still no counters, but I understand that you guys have to rebuild to unit-state system from scratch, so I'll just sum up what the AI should do.  As Terran I did a standard bunker/depot wall-in and then teched to Battlecruisers.  The AI did not make any mutalisks or corrupters to counter my Cruisers.  It also did not use Overlords to by-pass my wall-in.  It would also send continual waves of roaches right at my wall-in to get eaten by tanks.


At about 15 minutes the Zerg AI should stop with Tier 1 all-together, it's army needs to start consisting of Hydralisks, Mutalisks, Corrupters/Brood Lords, and eventually Mutalisks - infestors can stay too.  Zerg is still the best of the three, but overall it needs to ALWAYS play like Zerg - strength in numbers. Up until 15 minutes in the AI has this down perfectly,  the area of focus next should be to improve its transition to late game, as its late is probably the worst of the three.


Terran:


Terran plays almost exactly the same as v5.1 the only difference is it stopped massing Helions, unfortunately it went a step further and doesn't make any at all anymore.  I still saw tanks, and the AI is now using them in siege mode in battles.


Add Ravens - Ravens are very important for Terran - especially for defending expansions and harassing expansions.  Thors! - Need to see the AI getting a few of these, massing them generally isn't a good idea however. Reapers - AI should get Reapers vs toss. Medevacs - these are very crucial to keeping terran troops alive.  Helions - bring them back, just don't let the AI mass them. (Mid game should be helions/marauders/still some marines/medevacs, Banshees.  Late should be missile-upgraded Ravens, Thors, Tanks, Battlecruisers, Vikings (both modes)).


Protoss:


Protoss AI still has an abysmal early game,  I was going double gateway expansion to tech, and after 10 minutes I still had many more troops than it.  Would really like to see that early rush/push that the Zerg and Terran AIs have.  Stalkers were used, but not massed to a nearly sufficient degree.


I never saw any Immortals, they are really bread and butter of a protoss army in SC2, just like Reavers in BW.  Collosi never came out, had the AI got these it probably would have beaten my zealot/stalker/immortal push.  Late game the AI gets ONLY carriers and Archons, need to have some better variety here.  Protoss definitely has the strongest late game, just bring their middle, but especially early game up and it could easily be the best of the 3.


Overall:


Protoss has the best late game.  Zerg has the best early game.  Terran at the moment seems best middle game.  Terran has a decent early game, but doesn't push its advantage when it can easily win, instead waiting for its mid-game push.  Battlecruisers late is pretty much the only option for Terrans, but it takes the AI far too long to get there (25 minutes before I saw a good number).


Keep it up! We'll have this AI perfected soon enough at the rate progress is going.


-Elvish

[rackdude]

Hey, I would just like to start by saying thank you for the scripts. Now, is there any additional documentation for them anywhere? I was looking through them trying to understand everything but I couldn't find a few things (for example, where's the GG string? I want to change it to BM my friend  ).


Also, I saw Dark Pylons were still inside of the tactical AI and the build AI of the Protoss. I don't know if those methods are ever initiated, but maybe a trigger to those may cause some delays in the AI.


Good so far!

[Kiamberm]

Can anyone give me some tips? I'm using v3 AI because that's the easiest I could find, but I still get owned. I just can't seem to get units out as fast as the AI can. :/ you guys complain that the AI is to easy, and yet I can't even win 1 match against version 3

Can someone please give me some advice/tips?

[Happy-I-am]

Can anyone give me some tips? I'm using v3 AI because that's the easiest I could find, but I still get owned. I just can't seem to get units out as fast as the AI can. :/ you guys complain that the AI is to easy, and yet I can't even win 1 match against version 3

Can someone please give me some advice/tips?

have 10 workers getting minerals, have one working build 2 pop increasing buildings(overseer for zerg) then build a unit building building, train units and expand resources etc.

[G-StaR]

Can anyone give me some tips? I'm using v3 AI because that's the easiest I could find, but I still get owned. I just can't seem to get units out as fast as the AI can. :/ you guys complain that the AI is to easy, and yet I can't even win 1 match against version 3

Can someone please give me some advice/tips?

first you have to have a routine build order for every race
than you have to know which units are strong and weak against other units
dont wait to long for the first attack when you get an army like 5 zealots or some space marines and marauders try to attack the base...

[Hades]

Can anyone give me some tips? I'm using v3 AI because that's the easiest I could find, but I still get owned. I just can't seem to get units out as fast as the AI can. :/ you guys complain that the AI is to easy, and yet I can't even win 1 match against version 3

Can someone please give me some advice/tips?

Best tip i can give you is : Keep busy.


I just played the 5.5 ai Protoss vs protoss.

He was quite stupid... kept going back and forth between my cannons and a safe zone with arround 15 units untill most of them were distroyed.

I followed the remaining units to his base with some sentries and stalkers
was pretty easy from there and i kept feeding my army with more sentries and stalkers.

He had expanded to 3 diffrent areas but was still pretty weak since all his minerals were spent on expanding and not creating many units