V4 - http://www.mediafire.com/?mkj5zojqz2u (http://www.mediafire.com/?mkj5zojqz2u) (tons of small tweaks, no more twitchy retreats looks like)
If you had StarCrack or any other AI mods use this instead: http://www.mediafire.com/?2nenlfbjtjf (http://www.mediafire.com/?2nenlfbjtjf) (v4) (put the Base.SC2Data file into SC2\Mods\Liberty.SC2Mod\)
Unzip into SC2 installation directory. glhf!
AI has normal resource gathering rate, can only see map via scouting, and can expand. It will build workers and use build orders similar to human players, so expect multiple production buildings, stationary base defenses etc. AI performs better on larger maps due to current inability to deal with early rushes very well.
how does this differ from AI v5? Is it harder?
Quote from: ooni on March 01, 2010, 03:37:26 AM
how does this differ from AI v5? Is it harder?
Yes...
Just had a go with this, and its looking good.
P rushed zealots at the start and managed to stay alive by repairing the supply depot.
From there, they sent in armies and i'm not sure if its a limitation of the engine but it seems as soon as you run in with any force which looks bigger they do that weird dance where they take a step forward, then run away.
Saw a good number of units including colossus but game didn't go on much longer as i came in with my army and pretty much wiped em out.
Probably would of lost if they didn't do the whole running away thing as I was able to pick off a large chunk of their forces.
Definitely my favourite AI so far and i've pretty much tried them all.
Quote from: Diphoria on March 01, 2010, 04:58:55 AM
Just had a go with this, and its looking good.
P rushed zealots at the start and managed to stay alive by repairing the supply depot.
From there, they sent in armies and i'm not sure if its a limitation of the engine but it seems as soon as you run in with any force which looks bigger they do that weird dance where they take a step forward, then run away.
Saw a good number of units including colossus but game didn't go on much longer as i came in with my army and pretty much wiped em out.
Probably would of lost if they didn't do the whole running away thing as I was able to pick off a large chunk of their forces.
Definitely my favourite AI so far and i've pretty much tried them all.
So would you say that it is better than Starcrack's AI v5.0?
@goosie, who made this map?
Who made this AI ? this one was so great i am sorry but the 5.0 ai is nothing against this one this one i had some good fights they pushed at start with a small grp but i could hold them off but later they keep pushing but i build a nice army and pushed them back very nice ai
Can you make it into one Base.SC2Data file? It will work with beta launcher so I can choose AI easily.
I just played against this.. and it is definitely NOT better than starcrack's v5.0 AI.
First game PvZ, I killed the zerg early game with a few zealots..
Second game TvP, I made 5 barracks and killed the toss easily using marines.
I like starcrack's v5.0 AI more.
Hi where are you putting this files pleasE?and must we delete v4 ai in the folder before??thanks
well the
Quote from: creamsoda on March 01, 2010, 06:01:47 AM
I just played against this.. and it is definitely NOT better than starcrack's v5.0 AI.
First game PvZ, I killed the zerg early game with a few zealots..
Second game TvP, I made 5 barracks and killed the toss easily using marines.
I like starcrack's v5.0 AI more.
Quote from: creamsoda on March 01, 2010, 06:01:47 AM
I just played against this.. and it is definitely NOT better than starcrack's v5.0 AI.
First game PvZ, I killed the zerg early game with a few zealots..
Second game TvP, I made 5 barracks and killed the toss easily using marines.
I like starcrack's v5.0 AI more.
well if you rush ai it is always easy
I played it.
Which AI might people prefer?
Analysis of two AIs
Let's divide the game in to four parts
Early Phase
Middle Game
Late Game
End Game
v5.0
The v5.0 AIs by Starcrack are mediocre Early Phase and has strong Middle Game. But due to their overwhelming resource consumption early/middle game they suffer in Late game. Of course if you don't kill your enemy, End game it has enough to mass spam units and it fairs well (though somewhat limited to fixed amount of structures).
This AI
This one has horrible Early Phase but has good Middle and Late game. It does not consume a lot of resources early game making the overall game stronger (but spends so little that AI just gets pwned by tier 1 rush). Haven't played End game with this AI yet. If the maker of this AI can find a way to spend more resources if the enemy isn't teching and rushing then this will be a great AI.
Bad things about both of AI (a.k.a. suggestions)
Both AIs suffer in terms of moving their units back when they are able to win the battle and not moving back when they will subsequently lose.
They are too predictable. They never counter (I know AIs are still WIP but this would be a good idea), in fact they have the exact same build every time.
I mentioned earlier there are strengths/weaknesses in different stages of the AIs, when playing v5.0 you will tech, and when playing against this one you will rush.
Though they are still pretty easy if you choose to play in any other way. I mean why attack a bunker when there are 10 SCVs repairing it, wouldn't Blizzard hard code it so that the enemy units would attack the SCVs first? It's a shame, looks like Blizzard hasn't finished basics of AI movements/priorities yet(not even close). I hope they do by June.
My Thoughts on this AI?
I like it. I say 50:50 juxtaposed with v5.0.
I mean is it possible to play with the latest patch of blizzard(the second)?
I m asking since few days never get an answer who can answer me please?
Dont spam here! Ppl will answer you if you post one time more likely , than if you post couple of times! (as well as in shoutbox) AND YOUR POSTING TO A THREAD THAT HAS NOTHING TO DO WITH YOUR QUESTION!
Well, though, I installed the Starcraft 2 Beta yesterday and I'm sure its the 1st or 2nd patch then. I can play it the usual way...
ohhhh I like this AI. My favorite one so far.
Quote from: ooni on March 01, 2010, 06:33:27 AM
I played it.
Which AI might people prefer?
Analysis of two AIs
Let's divide the game in to four parts
Early Phase
Middle Game
Late Game
End Game
v5.0
The v5.0 AIs by Starcrack are mediocre Early Phase and has strong Middle Game. But due to their overwhelming resource consumption early/middle game they suffer in Late game. Of course if you don't kill your enemy, End game it has enough to mass spam units and it fairs well (though somewhat limited to fixed amount of structures).
This AI
This one has horrible Early Phase but has good Middle and Late game. It does not consume a lot of resources early game making the overall game stronger (but spends so little that AI just gets pwned by tier 1 rush). Haven't played End game with this AI yet. If the maker of this AI can find a way to spend more resources if the enemy isn't teching and rushing then this will be a great AI.
Bad things about both of AI (a.k.a. suggestions)
Both AIs suffer in terms of moving their units back when they are able to win the battle and not moving back when they will subsequently lose.
They are too predictable. They never counter (I know AIs are still WIP but this would be a good idea), in fact they have the exact same build every time.
I mentioned earlier there are strengths/weaknesses in different stages of the AIs, when playing v5.0 you will tech, and when playing against this one you will rush.
Though they are still pretty easy if you choose to play in any other way. I mean why attack a bunker when there are 10 SCVs repairing it, wouldn't Blizzard hard code it so that the enemy units would attack the SCVs first? It's a shame, looks like Blizzard hasn't finished basics of AI movements/priorities yet(not even close). I hope they do by June.
My Thoughts on this AI?
I like it. I say 50:50 juxtaposed with v5.0.
Interesting. That's a very good analysis of both AI's! Maybe I'll give this one more time to build, to see how well it does
Edit: starcrack v5.1 AI just got released. woot!
Quote from: Diphoria on March 01, 2010, 04:58:55 AM
From there, they sent in armies and i'm not sure if its a limitation of the engine but it seems as soon as you run in with any force which looks bigger they do that weird dance where they take a step forward, then run away.
I haven't been able to find the trigger that causes this behavior but it pisses me off too. The underlying issue is that AI likes to send in small armies often instead of a big one once in a while.
Quote from: ooni on March 01, 2010, 06:33:27 AM
This AI
Thisone has horrible Early Phase but has good Middle and Late game. It doesnot consume a lot of resources early game making the overall gamestronger (but spends so little that AI just gets pwned by tier 1 rush).Haven't played End game with this AI yet. If the maker of this AI canfind a way to spend more resources if the enemy isn't teching andrushing then this will be a great AI.
Bad things about both of AI (a.k.a. suggestions)
BothAIs suffer in terms of moving their units back when they are able towin the battle and not moving back when they will subsequently lose.
Theyare too predictable. They never counter (I know AIs are still WIP butthis would be a good idea), in fact they have the exact same buildevery time.
I mentioned earlier there are strengths/weaknessesin different stages of the AIs, when playing v5.0 you will tech, andwhen playing against this one you will rush.
Good feedback, ty. The early phase thing is kind of on purpose.
I'm trying to script a decently entertaining AI without letting itcheat. ATM it is also very difficult to let it adjust to what the humanplayer is doing. So the solution is to give it a rigid, balanced buildorder that is unfortunately going to be very weak against certain typesof gameplay. None of the current AI can both beat rushes AND remaincompetitive in late game, they either rush and build low tier armythemselves or tech as quickly as possible and make a late game army(mine does this).
QuoteThough they are stillpretty easy if you choose to play in any other way. I mean why attack abunker when there are 10 SCVs repairing it, wouldn't Blizzard hard codeit so that the enemy units would attack the SCVs first? It's a shame,looks like Blizzard hasn't finished basics of AI movements/prioritiesyet(not even close). I hope they do by June.
I'm sure blizzard either finished higher quality AI or is putting finishing touches on it :P The problem with beta AI is that it's hard coded to play on "very easy." In fact, there's even a script file called MeleeAINotHard that overwrites basic AI with simplified mechanics. By default AI doesn't even build more than 8 probes up to Hard difficulty :/ Build orders, triggers, etc for higher difficulty modes are all completely missing. Only the basic AI functions (like building stuff, combat targeting, etc) remain. We're forced to work with what we have.
Quote from: goosie on March 01, 2010, 04:45:23 PM
Quote from: Diphoria on March 01, 2010, 04:58:55 AM
From there, they sent in armies and i'm not sure if its a limitation of the engine but it seems as soon as you run in with any force which looks bigger they do that weird dance where they take a step forward, then run away.
I haven't been able to find the trigger that causes this behavior but it pisses me off too. The underlying issue is that AI likes to send in small armies often instead of a big one once in a while.
Quote from: ooni on March 01, 2010, 06:33:27 AM
This AI
Thisone has horrible Early Phase but has good Middle and Late game. It doesnot consume a lot of resources early game making the overall gamestronger (but spends so little that AI just gets pwned by tier 1 rush).Haven't played End game with this AI yet. If the maker of this AI canfind a way to spend more resources if the enemy isn't teching andrushing then this will be a great AI.
Bad things about both of AI (a.k.a. suggestions)
BothAIs suffer in terms of moving their units back when they are able towin the battle and not moving back when they will subsequently lose.
Theyare too predictable. They never counter (I know AIs are still WIP butthis would be a good idea), in fact they have the exact same buildevery time.
I mentioned earlier there are strengths/weaknessesin different stages of the AIs, when playing v5.0 you will tech, andwhen playing against this one you will rush.
Good feedback, ty. The early phase thing is kind of on purpose.
I'm trying to script a decently entertaining AI without letting itcheat. ATM it is also very difficult to let it adjust to what the humanplayer is doing. So the solution is to give it a rigid, balanced buildorder that is unfortunately going to be very weak against certain typesof gameplay. None of the current AI can both beat rushes AND remaincompetitive in late game, they either rush and build low tier armythemselves or tech as quickly as possible and make a late game army(mine does this).
QuoteThough they are stillpretty easy if you choose to play in any other way. I mean why attack abunker when there are 10 SCVs repairing it, wouldn't Blizzard hard codeit so that the enemy units would attack the SCVs first? It's a shame,looks like Blizzard hasn't finished basics of AI movements/prioritiesyet(not even close). I hope they do by June.
I'm sure blizzard either finished higher quality AI or is putting finishing touches on it :P The problem with beta AI is that it's hard coded to play on "very easy." In fact, there's even a script file called MeleeAINotHard that overwrites basic AI with simplified mechanics. By default AI doesn't even build more than 8 probes up to Hard difficulty :/ Build orders, triggers, etc for higher difficulty modes are all completely missing. Only the basic AI functions (like building stuff, combat targeting, etc) remain. We're forced to work with what we have.
Thanks for the breakdown of what you guys have to work with. It explains alot in how these AI are functioning, and why they are behaving the way they do. I won't get my hopes up too much then on you guys developing a super smart AI, since the stuff isn't actually there for you to mess with. :)
What everyone has done with the AI is still fun none-the-less!
great but i dont know why...but the terran cpu just create MARINE :( its just me?
Given the fact that the first version of the AI came out Saturday at about 12:30 AM, the devs have come very far in a short period of time. As Goosie pointed out however, many of the AI commands that will be in the full version of the game are not even coded into the beta, so it will take a good number of iterations while the devs build up the command list to be appropriate for competitive play.
Quote from: ElvishSolution on March 01, 2010, 06:13:06 PM
Given the fact that the first version of the AI came out Saturday at about 12:30 AM, the devs have come very far in a short period of time. As Goosie pointed out however, many of the AI commands that will be in the full version of the game are not even coded into the beta, so it will take a good number of iterations while the devs build up the command list to be appropriate for competitive play.
I agree. Everyone here (devs or just random people trying to help) have made significant progress to the AI in just a very short amount of time. I can't wait to see what the AI will look like 1-2 weeks from now. :)
can someone test the terran cpu ?? because the terran suck in my games. they just create marine and after , battlecruiser
I have tested the Terran on StarCrack v5.1 go to the link below to take a look at my report. My report on Zerg AI is also available. The Terran in v5.1 was certainly not a pushover, it beat me, of course it was T v T, and that is by far my worst match up.
Link:http://darkblizz.org/Forum2/ai-scripts/a-i-v5-0/30/ (http://darkblizz.org/Forum2/ai-scripts/a-i-v5-0/30/)
-Elvish
How does this compare to AI V5.1
New version is up.
Quote from: ooni on March 01, 2010, 06:33:27 AM
Bad things about both of AI (a.k.a. suggestions)
Both AIs suffer in terms of moving their units back when they are able to win the battle and not moving back when they will subsequently lose.
No one knows what does that yet, so you can't really complain about it.
Quote from: koolitseric on March 01, 2010, 10:15:42 PM
Quote from: ooni on March 01, 2010, 06:33:27 AM
Bad things about both of AI (a.k.a. suggestions)
Both AIs suffer in terms of moving their units back when they are able to win the battle and not moving back when they will subsequently lose.
No one knows what does that yet, so you can't really complain about it.
Actually play version v5.5 you will be pleasantly surprised.
why nobody cant answer me?? the terran ai really suck :( hr just build building or marine
Quote from: ooni on March 01, 2010, 06:33:27 AM
It does not consume a lot of resources early game making the overall game stronger
Consuming fewer resources is never a good thing.
Quote from: cliffton on March 02, 2010, 01:16:38 AM
Quote from: ooni on March 01, 2010, 06:33:27 AM
It does not consume a lot of resources early game making the overall game stronger
Consuming fewer resources is never a good thing.
It is when you are consuming less at the start to spam more higher tier units later or save enough money for expansion.
this is called "teching". You probably never played SC b4 so yeah, that's how that works.
Whoops, wrong thread. Please delete.
Thanks for making an alternative AI. Could you try to modify the AIDefaultExpansion so that it becomes tougher in the late game? It's higher values that makes it expand more, not lower values.
Quote from: ooni on March 01, 2010, 06:33:27 AM
v5.0
The v5.0 AIs by Starcrack are mediocre Early Phase and has strong Middle Game. But due to their overwhelming resource consumption early/middle game they suffer in Late game. Of course if you don't kill your enemy, End game it has enough to mass spam units and it fairs well (though somewhat limited to fixed amount of structures).
This AI
This one has horrible Early Phase but has good Middle and Late game. It does not consume a lot of resources early game making the overall game stronger (but spends so little that AI just gets pwned by tier 1 rush). Haven't played End game with this AI yet. If the maker of this AI can find a way to spend more resources if the enemy isn't teching and rushing then this will be a great AI.
So if I crush v5.5 in the mid game, this one isn't worth trying ;P? Still gonna try it ^^, will post feed back as soon as the game is over :P.
New version is up.
goose, this one doesn't load, prob wrong version
Better fix and reupload.
Quote from: ooni on March 02, 2010, 04:42:32 AM
goose, this one doesn't load, prob wrong version
Better fix and reupload.
Hmm, I re-uploaded it... it loads fine for me though :<
Do you have a modded Base.SC2Data? If you do, try rewriting it with mine - http://www.mediafire.com/?2nenlfbjtjf (http://www.mediafire.com/?2nenlfbjtjf) .
Quote from: goosie on March 02, 2010, 04:56:00 AM
Quote from: ooni on March 02, 2010, 04:42:32 AM
goose, this one doesn't load, prob wrong version
Better fix and reupload.
Hmm, I re-uploaded it... it loads fine for me though :<
Do you have a modded Base.SC2Data? If you do, try rewriting it with mine - http://www.mediafire.com/?2nenlfbjtjf (http://www.mediafire.com/?2nenlfbjtjf) .
OK, V4 works fine for me (both ways; folder-way & Base.SC2Data-way)...but im alittle bit confused: can i only use "your" .SCDATA-file to use your V4 or do i had to copy the triggerlib-folders into installfolder,too? know what i mean?
I believe it's incompatible with StarCrack's AI mod v5.5, that's why the map didn't load up properly.
Quote from: creamsoda on March 02, 2010, 06:10:33 AM
I believe it's incompatible with StarCrack's AI mod v5.5, that's why the map didn't load up properly.
Yes I Know. My Question is, if goosies AI still works, when i start the game only with "his" modded Base.SC2Data-V4 without the triggerlibs-folders in my SC2-InstallFolder...
I wasn't talking to you.. I was talking to Goosie.
My Experience:
TvT I massed huge amounts of tanks and he went battle cruisers. Did not expect that.
I only managed to win by massing Thors which absolutely owned BCs.
This is far superior compared to v5.5. Though the builds are somewhat the same.
Two ways for cheap wins,
1: Rush (Though I failed the first time, it's not as easy, AI masses tier 1 units. You kind of have to do a cheese; 2 barracks lift)
2: Turtle then mass Thors (100% chance win rate, with this)
Now if AIs are able to build counter units this AI will be ownage.
AI Info:
I'll explain this AI in terms of Terran
In the Early Phase, there will be a wave or Marines and Marauders. Of course this can be repelled by Siege Tanks and supply depots.
In Mid Game, AI gets few Thors and charges with Marines and maybe one siege tank? Can't remember. This can again be repelled by Siege Tanks + any unit (preferably Thor)
In End Game, no Thors, no nothing just mass Battlecruisers (Maybe I saw few marines)
Same formula for all races
Tier 1 or 1.5 then straight to Final Tier.
Brownie Points:
Something I noticed. The AIs don't expand to their neutrals until later in the game. Which is good because it's harder to rush them.
This is wonderful. I honestly believe it's greater than 5.5.
The Protoss did EXCELLENT. Such a variety of units, that's the way it should be.
The Terran did... meh. The ONLY units I saw from them were Battlecruisers... that's no fun. They had a huge load of Factories AND Battlecruisers. I request making them have a nice variety. All you gotta do in here is get the BC's counter (still looking for that from the Protoss. My usual Stalker mass did alright, but that's only cuz they were retreating for 3/4 the time I was shooting at them)
I've yet to try the Zerg.
Just give the Terran some variety and I may have found a nice AI home. ^.^
Oh, and another reason this is superior. I saw the Terrans actually had Missile Turrets and other buildings in his expo. Bonus points for that.
Just played it a couple times, nice to see improvements, AI expanded into island expansions, used medivacs, started massing BC's later on :}. Dealt pretty easy with BCs by responding with thors + vikings. Still haven't tested their detection ability. Kind of missed banshees, they do so much damage and AI didn't use them ;/. Anyways, good work, keep it up, gl ^^.
I have been using the 5.5 AI. How do I make it so this one is the difficulty that gets used? I'm not sure I am understanding what to do. And I'm guessing after I put everything in the right folders I still use the lazyloader correct?
great AI , bow the terran one is working :p
4 things ;
1. its not fun when in late game , the toss or the terran only use carrier or battlecruiser, maybe add some cool unit to beat with them
2. the terran ai dont build many tank siege ( good unit ) and reaper, ghost, bansshee!
3. maybe protoss can build mothership?
4. zerg suck, the dont build enough ( variety too )
I found this AI to be much easier than StarCrack's 5.5 AI.
I played 2 games so far. ZvT & ZvZ, me being Zerg, on both occasions.
The Terran AI was pretty damn weak. He never even really tried to attack me, just sent some Vikings now & then. He did build a couple of Thors & Battlecruisers, not to mention a ton of Vikings & some other units in small numbers but that was quite late in the game already, my Roach & Hydralisk swarm just massacred them.
The Zerg AI did better. He didn't really do any harassing, instead he tried taking me down with pretty large armies, consisting of Roaches & Hydralisks mainly, with some Mutalisks & Banelings. He did expand fast but the expansions were not defended. Ultimately my Roach & Hydralisk swam crushed them.
I liked that the Zerg AI uses burrow, well the Drones do, at least. Haven't seen them ever use burrow in StarCrack's AI. If you can add Roaches & Infestors to the list of "burrowers", that would make the Zerg AI quite a lot tougher. Since Infestors have no attack of their own & are quite frail, it's risky to keep them on the ground when they are idle. That would improve the Zerg just a bit, not really necessary to add, just a suggestion. The real booster would be Roach burrow, based on their health. If you can make Roaches burrow when their health falls under 15% & resurface when over 80%, they would be much, much sturdier. Roaches heal very fast burrowed, it's only a matter of seconds to get fully healed underground. On the ground they do heal but really slowly. A part of the Roaches would be out of combat like this, weakening your attack force but since they heal so fast they become very difficult to kill, like Medics + Marines.
Good job on the AI but I found StarCrack's 5.5 to be superior. I hope that at least some of my feedback can help you better your AI. None of it was meant as criticism just trying to help so I can play against a better opponent.
This seemed like it was pretty good but really I had no troubles with it. The play as Zerg with the comp being Toss and really I had no issues at all. Everyone said the early game was awful so I didn't bother rushing. Just macro'd up. By the time Toss attacked me I had way to many units for it to deal with. Ya it cleared out my lings with the collasi but nothing else really. I had no problems with it and was never really scared. With the 5.5 I at least get rushed early game and have a chance where he could break me as long as I don't exploit the comp (12 scvs repairing a bunker or something like that). So in terms of overall difficulty I have to go with 5.5. This one seems ok and would be the better version if they attacked early game at all. But due to the lack of any kind of early game harassment I have to go with 5.5.
Great work Goosie, awesome stuff right here !
I only had the chance to try out SCV5.1 last evening before Goosie v4 tonight and was positively impressed by your AI.
I for one was very entertained. Played PvZ (my favorite, killing Zerg makes me shiver in excitement) and was surprised by the nice expansion & tech strategy the AI deploys.
He seemed to rely on zerglings, banelings and roaches for ground units then teching to Mutalisks and Corruptors. Not a super effective strategy imho, I actually won without any air units, but with plenty of Stalkers and High Templars.
Can't give you too much feedback after 1 game, but would like to say this was extremely fun and I am looking fw to future iterations. Keep up the great work !
hm is this better then 5.5 ?
Quote from: Skylo on March 01, 2010, 06:44:04 AM
Dont spam here! Ppl will answer you if you post one time more likely , than if you post couple of times! (as well as in shoutbox) AND YOUR POSTING TO A THREAD THAT HAS NOTHING TO DO WITH YOUR QUESTION!
Well, though, I installed the Starcraft 2 Beta yesterday and I'm sure its the 1st or 2nd patch then. I can play it the usual way...
Seems kinda spamish too imo, Where are the mods when we need them =p? i don't like modding forums ><
Great AI man. I enjoyed this much more than StarCrack 5.5. Ive only played a couple 1v1 matches so far, but I lost one TvZ pretty hard. No matter what I did I just couldnt escape haha. Cant wait to see more. Hopefully someone figures out how to make AI Teams soon.
*EDIT*
Ok, I just played Metalopolis 6x FFA by Syko with this AI mod. It was great! I played two matches. Lost both. haha. Im not the greatest SC player, but all the other AIs I have tried I beat almost every time. This one is a challenge. Enemies attack with more variety of units, and in different wave sizes. Unlike StarCrack this AI can go far into a game and still work well.
Few things I noticed:
- AI likes to branch off early and start sub-bases everywhere. I found myself having to move my base because of an attack, only to find that there was nowhere to go. At least close enough to fly to. (Terran)
- AI puts up a fight for the High Cap minerals on the x6 Metalopolis map.
- On several occasions I find the AI in an all out war with other Computer players. Cool to see. I was moving in on one base, and saw two AI players going at it for a secondary location.
- Seems like all Races are similar in difficulty. Dont find that neither P/Z/T are superior in this AI.
Not sure if my comments will help anyone. But that is what I noticed. Im going to stick with this AI. Let ya know if I come across anything worth noting!
Thanks!
i've tried all of them. this one actually beat me a couple times because i underestimated it. it seems as if the AI loves to attack one another then me. i played 3 different times in a row and this happened. otherwise definitely a step in the right direction.
:) doesn't retreat, had fun with killing 10 zealots with 2 stalker and blink.
Quote from: killabyte on March 02, 2010, 11:06:06 PM
i've tried all of them. this one actually beat me a couple times because i underestimated it. it seems as if the AI loves to attack one another then me. i played 3 different times in a row and this happened. otherwise definitely a step in the right direction.
i was playing this version for the first time...and i was underestimating it too....then on a 3 way ffa i was fending off toss with ground units and suddenly terran came with 8 bcs from the back and woop my ass.....scare the shit out of me...then played a tvz...i build some dts and the computer couldnt figure out how to see cloak units.....it kept sending overlords to my dts lol...overlords not overseers...so i back off for a while....like 10-15 mins and came back, still no detectors
Quote from: Jak on March 03, 2010, 12:37:46 AM
Quote from: killabyte on March 02, 2010, 11:06:06 PM
i've tried all of them. this one actually beat me a couple times because i underestimated it. it seems as if the AI loves to attack one another then me. i played 3 different times in a row and this happened. otherwise definitely a step in the right direction.
i was playing this version for the first time...and i was underestimating it too....then on a 3 way ffa i was fending off toss with ground units and suddenly terran came with 8 bcs from the back and woop my ass.....scare the shit out of me...then played a tvz...i build some dts and the computer couldnt figure out how to see cloak units.....it kept sending overlords to my dts lol...overlords not overseers...so i back off for a while....like 10-15 mins and came back, still no detectors
I'll fix detectors for next version.
Protoss is quite good, terran is decent, zerg sucks balls. The Zerg AI is damn near useless in this. I suggest you steal the Zerg build order from V5.5.
Quote from: 1337 on March 03, 2010, 04:35:01 AM
Protoss is quite good, terran is decent, zerg sucks balls. The Zerg AI is damn near useless in this. I suggest you steal the Zerg build order from V5.5.
It's not the build order in particular that makes zerg strong in 5.5.
how to run it if I have 5.5 installed already? I have 3 launchers.. but... there is a folder "trigger" or smth like that, wtf? ;d
expanded too much, had too few units
First of all, great work. Lost the first few games until i got a feel for how this AI runs, (mostly TvZ :'( )
However, i was watching the replays of the last game that i won, and i found a few blatantly obvious problems (this one was TvT).
They didn't make enough supply depots, their population cap stayed at around 80-90 for the ENTIRE GAME.
Mid-Late game, their 3rd/4th/5th expansion did not have ANY workers at it for the remainder of the game. I'm not sure if this was stemming from not enough supply depots or not.
Late game just made nothing but battlecruisers. really a let down because before then they were making thors, rauders, and rines, kind of giving me a run for my money, (no seige tanks though).
Hope this helps!
Great work! I didn't try this because I thought it wouldnt be as good as Starcrack, but I was wrong. I am probably C- Iccup player with 130-150 apm and, haven't lost to any AI yet. But I lost to your AI on the 6 player metalopolis map. I was being harassed by 3 diff computers and I was playing zerg. They did very well by constantly sending harassment towards my mineral line.
For people lookin for a challenge, this is better than 5.5 IMO. But you have to be in the base with two entrances, because then you have to fight 2 comps for expos, and get attacked much much more. People are finding 1v1s too easy (which they are, for all AIs), try the 6 player map and restart till u spawn on the base with two entrances. That is probably the biggest challenge I've seen so far.
Great job.
Version 4:
I went speedlings off 1 base/queen, don't think I was ever scouted or scanned (I don't even remember denying any scvs). The computer went marine/marauder and viking (Oh, also a thor that he didn't move out with). He moved out shortly after expanding. I lost about a third of my lings and then just completely destroyed his base.
I would like to see the computer use the vikings to harass my overlords, scout, etc. I think the main problem here was that the computer had no idea that I was just massing lings. If it did know, I would like it to get hellions/siege tanks/banshees, and maybe turtle if it knows it's at a disadvantage.
I'd like to see what it does against mass siege tanks or mass whatever-the-new-dragoons-are-called.
Thank you for your time and effort. If you find this sort of feedback useful, let me know.
Does this AI do away with the ridiculous "enemy units run back and forth for the duration of the entire game strategy"?
I know the idea is to make the AI challenging, but preferably not busy work.
Yes it's challenging to try to deal with the enemy's army constantly running back and forth to your base to try to draw your units out. No, a not-retarded player would never do this as you'd never be able to do anything with your base. You would have to spend the entire game bouncing back and forth trying to draw out your opponent because you couldn't think of a better strategy. I like games that are fun, I already work 40 hours a week. That's just more busy work. :-[
Servitor: No the AI doesn't do that. When it attacks, it attacks until it's convinced that it's failed, then it just retreats. At least it doesn't dither on the same spot within range of your units.
I poked the script to make it cheat, it was a wee bit weaker than cheating Starcrack 5.5, both AIs have a vulnerability of getting BCs kited and killed by Valkyries.
This is a pretty good Ai considering 5.5. It seems to transition nicely Early-Mid-Late. One complaint is (And I see you already have acknowledged it) is early game, especially defending against rushes. Also, it seemed to send out 2 or 3 Battle Cruisers at a time, only to get destroyed by my AA. Other than that, great Ai and good work.
short points:
terran didnt lift off expos when clearly being attacked
zerg continus rebuilding queen no matter how many times it dies. You should make it stop after 2 or 3 and rebuild when they are more secure in their base.
zerg needs to macro more
I'll add more if I notice them
Thanks you Goosie! :)
Hey!
I just played a game against your ai, after numerous V5.5 matches. I have to say yours is a LOT better imho. I almost broke out in tears of joy when i saw my mass marines obliterated by some psi storms!
The ai really does not limbo as much as it used to, it retreats when it needs to.
But.
I dont know if its possible, but can you make the AI remember what the opponents have? It seems to me, that it attacks, fails, retreats to the base, and starts attacking again, even if it still has inferior forces.
Toss seemed the strongest to me, cast storms, made colossi, and a nice mix of stalkers and zealots. I am yet to play against a terran. The zerg seemed to get stuck in the low tech part. I saw corruptors, always flying in pairs, never more, and although lots of banelings and roaches, nothing above. Some hidras and ultras would be really nice! I intentionally gave the ai enough time to make whatever it wanted. No brood lords, carriers, phoenixes, infestors, hydras, ultras.
I am really impressed with your work, so keep it up!
GG
Pulas
Just a small update, sorry it's taking so long, but just like turdburgler i am in the process of rewriting a lot of original code.
I really wish blizzard gave us more to work with :( But I guess we're not supposed to be "beta testing" galaxy editor yet :>
No worries, Goosie. I highly doubt Galaxy will be leaked before the retail release of SC2. It will probably be closely guarded by Blizzard. :(
Thank you for all your hard work!
this has a bit better unit combinations than 5.5, but i still beat it easily.... keep it up~~
Damn you and your AI, I just keep loosing to it :-\ I'm used to StarCrack 5.5 being a total dumbo, and after playing 2 matches of Goosie's AI v4 I must say that you've done really good job here :D This is really challenging, at least now in the beginning. Let's see it again when I learn the importance of defence xP
Alright, looking over scripts in latest starcrack 6.0 it appears that the team is implementing pretty much everything I was working on. Don't have the time atm to be able to keep up with a dedicated team of devs :P Instead I'm going to poke around their scripts some more and see if I can suggest some minor improvements or whatnot. Might wanna unsticky the thread since I want be able to keep my AI up to par anymore.
Quote from: goosie on March 06, 2010, 02:03:56 AM
Alright, looking over scripts in latest starcrack 6.0 it appears that the team is implementing pretty much everything I was working on. Don't have the time atm to be able to keep up with a dedicated team of devs :P Instead I'm going to poke around their scripts some more and see if I can suggest some minor improvements or whatnot. Might wanna unsticky the thread since I want be able to keep my AI up to par anymore.
It was a nice run. Good job for the hours of entertainment I'm certain you granted some people.
I liked the tech builds and unit mix in this one. 6.0 forces me to be aggressive/turtle up a lot of units, so this is a nice variety of playstyle.
Quote from: goosie on March 06, 2010, 02:03:56 AM
Alright, looking over scripts in latest starcrack 6.0 it appears that the team is implementing pretty much everything I was working on. Don't have the time atm to be able to keep up with a dedicated team of devs :P Instead I'm going to poke around their scripts some more and see if I can suggest some minor improvements or whatnot. Might wanna unsticky the thread since I want be able to keep my AI up to par anymore.
Well, we're not really a dedicated team of devs. There's three of us working on the AI and I do a good deal of the work, one guy plays with build orders sometimes and the other works on more technical stuff.
You're welcome to use our code and modify it to continue your AI, as long as we're credited.
Unsticking the thread as per request.
EDIT: In fact, you're welcome to join us. Just throw me a PM.
Hope you guys can work together. Goosies cheating 5.5 is still the toughest one IMO, without feeling like the computer is cheating too hard.