Here are some useless or just god-afwul units so far in the starcraft 2 beta
Zerg
-infestor(way too slow to be of any use, never seen them in replays)
Terran
-Thor(much controversy about this unit, in my opinion, siege tanks are better for the money and much more versitile)
-Battlecruiser is kind of weak now since they do multiple attacks that can be easily reduced by armor(still has yamoto cannon though ;D )
Protoss
-Colossus(only useful against tier 1 units, costs too much, and too fragile)
-Pheonix(never seen it used succsesfully, low attack, low hp, ability not practical)
These are just the ones off the top of my head
Feel free to express your opinions below
I've actually seen all of these units used successfully except maybe bcs and some in high level play, though I would agree that a lot of those units need tweaking. watch hdstarcraft and huskystarcraft replays on youtube and they show off these units at some point
funny use of phoenix http://www.youtube.com/user/SC2GGRise#p/u/10/Tf9igV1e1Xo (http://www.youtube.com/user/SC2GGRise#p/u/10/Tf9igV1e1Xo)
Infestor
I've seen Infestors and it's neural parasite ability used well by Oversky. I've seen HDStarcraft also use fungal growth, not to its maxed potential but enough to pay for the cost of the unit. The spawn infested terran skill is utterly useless, it seems its only purpose is for lore and the Zerg theme of infesting humans. Personally I think neural parasite is a tad bit overpowered, a 10 second mind control stil removes an enemy unit from battle and strengthens your forces, especially when taking higher tech units. Fungal growth is extremely powerful as well, not only can a snare decimate your enemy's units during their unfavourable encounter but it can actually reveal cloaked units as well. It's a soft counter but 8 seconds is alot of time.
Thor
I generally agree, its too expensive for what it brings to the battlefield. It's too easily focus fired so its pretty much just a support unit behind primary units. The armor on it is 1 right now which is a little silly, (roach has more wow) so i think it should at least be 2, and its hp increased to 450. It's got great damage and AA though.
Oh and the ability is good, really untraditional for SC and its pretty circumstancial but ok.
Battlecruiser
I think the changed attack is to make battlecruisers much less capable of being critically massed. Before it did 25 attack instantly and once you had a dozen of these it would be pretty hard stopping it. It also puts the battlecruiser on the level of the carrier in terms of how much armor affects the attack.
Collosus
This unit works really well for me, but then again I play against computers. I've got really mixed feelings about reavers dissapearing and collusi, especially when i first heard. I loved using reavers as a mainly protoss player but at the same time I also hated facing the reaver, which says alot i would think. Collosus while not as powerful as reavers, are alot easier to use and much easier to keep alive. They truly shine when are properly supported and shielded by other units and have 2-3+. They are truly capable of decimating low hp units. Combined with psi storms, protoss can finish a bttle quickly.
Infestor
The infestor actually isn't bad against terran infantry with its fungal growth, though it really could use a speed boost. Still I wouldn't call it useless. Honestly I think we'll start seeing more when the zerg players catch on to how useful they can be. There's really no reason you wouldn't want to mix them in with your roaches/hydras. Neural parasite is also pretty nice against power ground.
Thor
The thor actually is rather powerful, mostly it's just that few terrans actually bother to go metal in SC2. It may be something like the vulture where it takes a while for people to realize how good it is. I figure its main use will be in TvT to ward off banshees, since it does that exceptionally well. Not to mention its a total beast against ground.
Battlecruiser
The battlecruiser is also pretty useful, it's just that it's a high tech unit and most games thus far haven't gotten that far. From what little I've played on battle.net, I can tell you that the game is heavily based on rushes. So naturally BCs won't see much use until it's balanced out a bit better.
Collosus
Main problem I see with this unit is that air can hit it. I can still see it getting some use in PvZ though. It's actually not that difficult to micro it out of the way of ground, since it can walk over your own units. The main problem is that the guy builds a few vikings and can just blow it to all hell, because protoss ground to air is so weak (stalkers suck bad)
The only one I have any complaints about in your list is the Thor. Just too slow and big to make it highly effective. It would be cool if they would bring back the Goliath and you could "Transform" 2 of them into a Thor.
BC's are still good. I would almost say better even. I spent a lot of time testing them 1 on 1 vs other units and from what I can remember only one unit beat it? It may have been an immortal.
Quote from: ajax on March 20, 2010, 08:14:18 PM
Here are some useless or just god-afwul units so far in the starcraft 2 beta
Zerg
-infestor(way too slow to be of any use, never seen them in replays)
Terran
-Thor(much controversy about this unit, in my opinion, siege tanks are better for the money and much more versitile)
-Battlecruiser is kind of weak now since they do multiple attacks that can be easily reduced by armor(still has yamoto cannon though ;D )
Protoss
-Colossus(only useful against tier 1 units, costs too much, and too fragile)
-Pheonix(never seen it used succsesfully, low attack, low hp, ability not practical)
These are just the ones off the top of my head
Feel free to express your opinions below
Well u are really wrong for battlecruser and Thor: BC is very usefull 2v2 game,make 10 of them and u will clear the map. Thor have imba air range, not to mention 250mm Cannons which make Ultralisc to vanish from the fight.
Colossus will be very good unit if they cant be hit from air(maybe will be too good:)
I am so agree for Pheonix - Most Useless from all the units in game.Only think is good is to make illusion from sentry and scout.
How can u say infestor is useless??? so imba-
Burrowed Movement; Neural Parasite and Fungal Growth (http://starcraft.wikia.com/wiki/Burrow)
So crazy abilities.
I still dont think Void Ray is useful enough; too small dmg at the begining of the attack. U cant haras with him. if u stop attack even for a sec, your dmg is back to 2!!!Only good vs buildings.
Quote from: zeratus on March 22, 2010, 04:10:49 AM
I am so agree for Pheonix - Most Useless from all the units in game.
It's Phoenix ("Enix") and this is my reply
HD StarCraft - Azz vs aLt - 1v1 - PvP - Part 1 (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RT6hvgOeZ5M&feature=sub#ws)
There has been several pro match ups where phoenix were used like the video above.
I'm sure the none of SC2 units will be useless until expansion comes out.
Remember SC1 (pre-broodwar) Scouts were actually used other than as a taunt unit.
I'm only really going to comment about the Colossus as I am a Protoss player. I think that they have been made very well by Blizzard, I find that they support my Stalkers really well during the end game stages. Blizzard can't make them as powerful as it seems you would like them to, they would be just overpowered and Starcraft II is alot about balance.
The Colossus have the 'Cliff Walk' ability and can move through your units, these along with the long range research and you have one mean machine. I think its safe to say that the Colossus is a near perfect unit. Mean offense, weak to moderate defense, but not so hard to keep alive.
On a side note, I'm not sure how effective a Sentry's shield is, but I'm sure it would help the Colossus out a fair bit in terms of defensive power if you were to couple them.
good replay ooni...
But the only reason this tactic win i coz red protoss dont have most powerful resource of this game - Information.
Weak scouting, weak army weak tactic; why in the hell he send 2 colossus to just die? Good tactic from the Blue player but still red look his base too late.
Good replay, nice commenting in it as well.. who was teh commentator in it?
Also i think Blue just wanted to kill as much probes with colosus since they where useless to do any thing else with at that stage, I don't think he realized he would get spotted by tower, he could not send whole army else his probes would get pwned, so he just needed to get a phew shots off on probes before they would be destroyed. but that is what happens when you don't scout sufficiently.
My 2 cents
Manta
Colossus are anything but UnderP. Well it's true that the are only good against t1 units thats all Terran get and it owns zerg too. Your wrong!
The pheonix is necessary if you want to counter air as protoss, since stalkers are basically horrible. If a terran goes banshees, or a toss goes void rays, you practically need pheonixes to counter.
And the pheonix really isn't a terrible unit either with its graviton beam. It can be a nice way to assassinate specific units like ghosts or siege tanks.
Unlike SC1, SC2 really doesn't have any obviously useless units. While the high tech units will always be seen less (simply because they're high tech), that doesn't mean they aren't useful.
Also, there just hasn't been much exploration into the metagame yet. Right now it seems like all terrans go marine/marauder and all toss do robotics first to immortals. Zerg are either mass roach or mass hydra. This makes units that don't fit into the counter scheme there to seem useless, but as the metagame develops and people learn to beat these strategies (and units get nerfed), we're going to see more units used.
I disagree. Colossi are indeed quite effective against low tier units, but they are also powerful vs. higher tier. Be near a cliff and they're easy to micro with. 1 attack upgrade and they're dealing 50 splash damage per shot. combined with the extended lance upgrade, he's gonna have more range than the reaver. The colossus is a very powerful unit, he is not to be taken lightly. Just look at the reaver, that unit wasn't very beefy in hp/sp either. But it made due.
Imo, the Mothership is the truly useless unit. Its cost doesn't meet its effectiveness at all.
Quote from: Artanis186 on March 22, 2010, 08:16:23 PM
Imo, the Mothership is the truly useless unit. Its cost doesn't meet its effectiveness at all.
What? The mothership is damn awesome.
Permacloaks all your units, has a powerful attack, and can put a bunch of enemy units in a black hole?
I mean it's not something you want in the front lines, but as a support unit, it's excellent and well worth the money.
I agree with thors. They are slow, and no health and armor what so ever. They do good damage though!
im a toss player and i think they should change the mothership's ability back.. the mothership is no more useful.. not even reach the arbiter's rank... massrecall,permacloak,and vortex.. is just terrible.. its samething as one arbiter just supporting ur army that cost like 400 minerals and 400 gas.. from my point of view mothership is really useless now
I think it is what people want/wanted; for the unit to be an arbiter. The original Mothership was overpowered and costed a lot of money. Nobody wants "super" units in starcraft. Get that crap outa here!! :P
Quote from: Joe on March 23, 2010, 01:04:28 AM
I think it is what people want/wanted; for the unit to be an arbiter. The original Mothership was overpowered and costed a lot of money. Nobody wants "super" units in starcraft. Get that crap outa here!! :P
Yes.
If you want super units, go play Warcraft 3.
Quote from: qqq66660 on March 23, 2010, 12:10:40 AM
im a toss player and i think they should change the mothership's ability back.. the mothership is no more useful.. not even reach the arbiter's rank... massrecall,permacloak,and vortex.. is just terrible.. its samething as one arbiter just supporting ur army that cost like 400 minerals and 400 gas.. from my point of view mothership is really useless now
I totally agree, there's nothing Arbiter can't do that ms can. and the vortex can get more of your own army if you don't control it well (and it messes up carrier's interceptor too).
But I don't think going back to the first one with blackhole and teleport itself is that great either, because that would make the balance completely out of tilt (unless it cost 3000/3000 with 300 build time, which is not even practical)
I think the best way is just....replace it with something else. terran and zerg don't have super units, so why protoss? and why, further, do people want a crippled super unit?
Quote from: crazian on March 23, 2010, 02:01:31 AM
Quote from: qqq66660 on March 23, 2010, 12:10:40 AM
im a toss player and i think they should change the mothership's ability back.. the mothership is no more useful.. not even reach the arbiter's rank... massrecall,permacloak,and vortex.. is just terrible.. its samething as one arbiter just supporting ur army that cost like 400 minerals and 400 gas.. from my point of view mothership is really useless now
I totally agree, there's nothing Arbiter can't do that ms can. and the vortex can get more of your own army if you don't control it well (and it messes up carrier's interceptor too).
But I don't think going back to the first one with blackhole and teleport itself is that great either, because that would make the balance completely out of tilt (unless it cost 3000/3000 with 300 build time, which is not even practical)
I think the best way is just....replace it with something else. terran and zerg don't have super units, so why protoss? and why, further, do people want a crippled super unit?
i dont mean the first mothership.. that was too rigged! i mean the first beta mothership with vortex, wormhole, and small timebomb....
Stalker is the worst unit right now because it does so little damage..
And mothership is one of those units you forget are even in the game.. Arbiter was better
Quote from: iounas on March 24, 2010, 03:20:59 PM
Stalker is the worst unit right now because it does so little damage..
And mothership is one of those units you forget are even in the game.. Arbiter was better
agree with ya
Quote from: iounas on March 24, 2010, 03:20:59 PM
Stalker is the worst unit right now because it does so little damage..
Yeah, honestly the only reason to ever use a stalker is because you're forced into it. It's really the only ground to air attacker the protoss have. But they seriously suck. I mean, they're supposed to counter banshees but they lose to them.
Stalkers should either get a damage boost, or maybe have all their damage be generic damage instead of half of it being a bonus only against armored units. Really stalkers don't beat much of anything straight up right now, other than hellions. At the very least it'd be nice if they did good damage to reapers and banshees even if they still suck against everything else. Those are the only two units I really would build stalkers to counter. Against hellions you can just go immortals.
Do buildings count? Because if so I nominate the Terran Sensor Tower. I mean seriously, wtf? The enemy gets to see the circle of sight? What could they possibly been thinking when they included this thing?
Stalker, though my favorite unit (perhaps from personal bias), is a little weak on the attack. A more detailed list for me would have to be...
Protoss: Mothership - It costs 2-3x the arb and does the same shit, just bring the arb back. The lore's fucked up enough, just alter it a bit and call it canon and you got the Arbiter. Also, the Phoenix isn't all that great, but neither was the Corsair. The Protoss have never really had a very good air force.
Terran: Hmm, I'd have to say the hellion. I've never really played as the Terran, so I can't base my opinion off what I see, but Hellion seems a little weak from an outside perspective.
Zerg: Gotta be the Infestor. Only cuz the IT ability is so useless anymore. I preferred it in the infest building state, but that's excusable cuz it'd be nearly impossible to implement lore-wise. They're just too weak on attack, I suppose. It's been demonstrated at how useless they are in videos before.
i think that hellions are the most useless unit...
Quote from: berrykerry789 on March 24, 2010, 10:46:35 PM
i think that hellions are the most useless unit...
O_O oh wat?
It's a must for TvZ and TvP if you want to do economic harass
Marines with reactor plus hellions with reactor is a great massing strategy that works rather well on all three races from what I've seen.
well, i don't use hellions as long as the ai doesnt mass zealots or roaches+lings at me... (recently, it has been doing this a lot since i switched to 7.0)
besides, its much funner to micro with vultures in the original starcraft than with hellions in the new starcraft2...
Im a toss player but PvT, hellions get wrecked.
Ive only been hit by them once and they dropped like flies to stalkers, but PvT you generally see the terran going for a biobuild anyway
So far there are no useless protoss units, i cant comment on the other races.
I just won 3 ray rush games in a row, 2 with FE's. the one i lost was rather my fault, shouldnt have tried ray rush vs toss but hey
Phoenix aren't entirely useless, but rather overpriced and too micro-intensive for me. GBeam is useful in a couple situations but, again, my time and money is better placed elsewhere. I would like to see a buff to them but i dont think its absolutely necessary. I see their use, however minute it is
Quote from: MrMagoo22 on March 24, 2010, 06:39:50 PM
Do buildings count? Because if so I nominate the Terran Sensor Tower. I mean seriously, wtf? The enemy gets to see the circle of sight? What could they possibly been thinking when they included this thing?
Seconded.
It's more expensive than a missile turret, isn't a detector and has no attacks.
o.0 sensor towers not a detector?
No. But sensor tower is amazing for proxy's, hidden expos, generally knowing where and how heavy you'll be hit from. Who cares if they see the circle? They'll likely try and kill it and then you know they're coming. Its cheap enough that it is definitely worth it. Not to mention the radius is HUGE, you can place them in arbitrary places for more warning.
I think they are pretty amazing to say the least
I have seen all units in replays and they were very useful!
[/color]
[/color]Infestor e.g. vs mass Marines
[/color]Thor -> good damage and great range
[/color]BC -> yamamoto canon rocks
[/color]Colossus not only vs t1 also e.g. roaches/hydraslik
[/color]and phoenix is good for e.g. harrasing
[/color]
[/color]Every unit is useful in some way!
I think the thor is used alot. In alot of videos i see it being used tons of times. I havent seen battlecruisers used at all, I never use battlecruisers. They get killed to easily and dont do enouph damage like in the last one. I like to use the infestors. There ability to produce terran marins and deal damage over an area is alot like the sci storm. They may be slow but the sure make a very good base deffender.I think that they should make a upgrade to make them walk faster on and off the creep. Im not really sure if the already have this or not but if they then nvm.
I've yet to use a thor successfully, i dunno they get taken down so fast. I see the use for them but, the way i play my moneys better spent in many other ways. theyre just too big and not practical for me
thors are good if they are placed in a semi circle with the enemy in the middle, if they are in a line, or at a choke point, only 1(max 3) thor(s) can fire at a time and get get owned by the other player...
Quote from: ajax on March 20, 2010, 08:14:18 PM
Here are some useless or just god-afwul units so far in the starcraft 2 beta
Zerg
-infestor(way too slow to be of any use, never seen them in replays)
I think the infestors are useful, the parasite ability can be used to command thors, colossi and things like that and, I'am not sure how many people know this but if you can get the parasite on a scv or probe you can build a whole base of that race and use their units against them! :fight:
Whoa, really? Mindcontrol a la SC2. Solid
Quote from: Rain[sun] on March 29, 2010, 11:12:18 AM
Whoa, really? Mindcontrol a la SC2. Solid
Ya! Try it out!