Hey, I'm just wondering what builds you guys use for protoss. I dominate w/ Terran but Protoss just seems to be ultra powerful late game. Discuss!
PvP mess zealots can be very powerful, as I saw some replays that single base no gas build, and zealots only can be powerful.
PvZ you need some deference and fast tech build, also expand at beginning is considerable, fast tech for high templar, psi storm is very strong vs Zerg.
PvT zealots + stalker with charge and blink researched.
Personally i've been teching to dt as quickly as i can after scouting a turtling, or noob base. otherwise stalkers zealots, or if they are going melee 2 sentry and mass stalker
Warp gates to prism was the most annoying thing I have ever seen with dark templers
3warp prism is my new fav strategy
I just make my hybrid mix of units then as im going to attack for the first time i pop them into warp's while making some more regulars
Sentrys are wayyyy undervalued, they make disgustingly good pairs with blinking or colossing cliffs, only takes 2 fields to cover a ramp
Once I can play against a human player im gonna fiddle with a sentry-stalker strat, im loving it so far agianst AI though
I usually go for a wall-in first, with a gateway and cybernetic core, especially against zerg. I leave a small choke point, with 2-3 zealots defending it. Then I build robotics facility for immortals, templar archives and go for the 7 warp gate build. If I scout a lot of enemy air units early on, I go for forge+cannons instead of immortals.
Sentrys are great, I've seen people doing amazing micro with the force field, and guardian shields come in handy too.
Like i said in the terran build post.. it depends what your opponent does..scout as often as possible and keep your scouter alive..i love toss with the new chrono boosting..im playing the crack so its random races..so i get to practice with a lot of them..when playing a zerg if they 9 or 10 pool u should have time to build 3 zealots by the time he gets to ur base with an early harras ling rush..thats it you chrono boost right..like i said before its hard to practice one build against an AI but my basic build is 2 gate 3 to 4 zealots cybernetic core..stalkers one or 2 sentries and early push to harrass. if your playing terran scout and see if they have infantry like reapers marines ect from the barracks..stalkers should do the job..if they tech up to tanks start builing immortals because they own it.. thats all i have for now
In BW I would start with the standard 4 zeal to dragoon rush, after which I simply make whatever I need to counter the opponent.
SC2 I've been experimenting with mass stalkers to void ray / immortals (pump phoenix if you need AA).
Build order is really simple 10 probes > pylon/assimilator > gateway / 4 probes for gas > keep pumping probes non stop while you get cyber core and zeals (same as BW you want approximately 2 per mineral cluster) > second gateway > start stalker pumping > 2nd assimilator > robotics facility > expansion > stargate > immortals > phoenix
Bottom line is its all in the micro, 20 stalkers can take out 30 marauders if you blink and focus fire appropriately.
Zealots, Immortals, Stalkers, Sentry, after a bit of a mass, backup with a couple of colossus'
Good if you're keeping enemy scouted, its bad if they mass air as immortals are the backbone of the strategy, and they only hit ground.
Quote from: bnwdandy on February 28, 2010, 04:25:40 PM
PvP mess zealots can be very powerful, as I saw some replays that single base no gas build, and zealots only can be powerful.
PvZ you need some deference and fast tech build, also expand at beginning is considerable, fast tech for high templar, psi storm is very strong vs Zerg.
PvT zealots + stalker with charge and blink researched.
Psi storm is crap in starcraft 2 unless you corner the oponent's army and block its exit since psi storm now seems to have a little cast delay. I suggest pairing up zealots with charge,stalkers and Colossus. They seem to pown zerg.
1 Gate tech seems pretty good
From there you have 3 choices:
-stargate->void ray (auto win vs ai)
-robo->immortal (then move on to collossus, this is by far the strongest build)
-twighlight council->storm (storm is kinda weak, and u gotta remember to turn off charge on your zeals cuz they charge into your storm
Protoss is the best so far :> not OP,but extreamly easy to play :>.I know that we play vs AI and all,but for me with protoss its easyer to beat AI then with other :>.Its just that chrono bust give you rly fast tech :> and its extreamly useful :>.
Tactic that win every time(vs AI that is xD ):
Zealots+Sentry=win(specialy vs terran :> )
I think protoss is going to be a bit harder than in broodwar. Warp gates keep messing up my macro cycle because you build units SO fast that you need SO many more pylons and its obnoxious.
Ive been doing random builds, almost all 1 gate stalker transition into whatever. But its AI and unless your noob its pretty easy to make anything work. Gotta wait for multiplayer before you can really start discussing builds.
Quote from: TokeGaming on March 02, 2010, 03:28:59 PM
I think protoss is going to be a bit harder than in broodwar. Warp gates keep messing up my macro cycle because you build units SO fast that you need SO many more pylons and its obnoxious.
Ive been doing random builds, almost all 1 gate stalker transition into whatever. But its AI and unless your noob its pretty easy to make anything work. Gotta wait for multiplayer before you can really start discussing builds.
^this
Altho i was always kind of a douche on BW, Id do the strats that after a win I'd get messages like "WTF YOU NOOB L2P OMGGG YOU SUCK"
And I can already see some of those poppin up, have to test on humans but ive got the build orders down :D
Quote from: ESL|Dynasty on March 02, 2010, 02:58:06 AM
Quote from: bnwdandy on February 28, 2010, 04:25:40 PM
PvP mess zealots can be very powerful, as I saw some replays that single base no gas build, and zealots only can be powerful.
PvZ you need some deference and fast tech build, also expand at beginning is considerable, fast tech for high templar, psi storm is very strong vs Zerg.
PvT zealots + stalker with charge and blink researched.
Psi storm is crap in starcraft 2 unless you corner the oponent's army and block its exit since psi storm now seems to have a little cast delay. I suggest pairing up zealots with charge,stalkers and Colossus. They seem to pown zerg.
What are you smoking? You just have to know how to use it. I notice no casting delay, and it works really well.
For one, have a Mothership drop a vortex, then launch X number of psi storms as it expires.
For another, just have the High Templars blanket an area with Psi Storms.
I love Psi Storm! It's not crap. :(
storms are fun! i like them more now than i did in brood war
especially fun when you outmatch the opponent army, storm their retreat path, or forcefield them in a storm. funfunfun
Quote from: bnwdandy on February 28, 2010, 04:25:40 PM
PvP mess zealots can be very powerful, as I saw some replays that single base no gas build, and zealots only can be powerful.
PvZ you need some deference and fast tech build, also expand at beginning is considerable, fast tech for high templar, psi storm is very strong vs Zerg.
PvT zealots + stalker with charge and blink researched.
PVP, defenately a shit load of zealots is pretty much the shit, specialy against the AI.
PVZ, i prefer going like a hand full of zealots, a hand full of stalkers and as many collossus as i can (with this trio, you really dont care about his air units becouse his base goes down in less than a minute unless he has twice or more units than you lol).
PVT you can try a dark templar and phoenix combo if he goes mass vikings (scouting like mad is esensial no matter which race you play against) and combined masses of zealots,stalkers and immortals if he goes mass marine/marauders and tanks.
My new favourite thing (which has won me 5 2v2 games in a row on bnet now) is Void Ray rush. It works very well against Protoss and Zerg. Marines will be a problem.
- Pylon (at choke point)
- Forge (at choke point)
- Photon Cannon (at choke point)
This should block the choke point completely (unless you're playing Twilight Fortress).
- Gateway
- 2 x Assimilator
- Cybernetics Core
- Pylon (at choke point)
- 2 x Photon Cannon (at choke point)
At this point you should have 16 probes done (or queued) getting minerals and 6 getting gas. If not, you are slow.
- 2 x Stargate
- 2-5 x Pylon (you'll have more minerals than you need at this point...)
- 2-5 x Photon Cannon (... so just make sure you have 400 minerals left when the stargates are done)
- 2 x Void Ray (and Chrono Boost these as much as you can)
Send these off to the enemy and destroy the most tactical target first. Most likely the structure attacking air or the one that builds units which attacks air.
Thanks for all the builds guys! will have to try them!
Here are some current Standards in the existing metagame for online play:
PvZ
-9 Pylon
-12 Gate
-14 Gas
-16 Pylon
-Cyber immediately after gate
-2nd gas after cyber is started(Not finished)
-Pylon at 23 food
-Robo Facil immediately (Start warpgate tech)
-Second gate when funds allow
-- Attack after 2-3 immortals, and a mix of Stalker, Zeal, Sentry (3 zeal, 2 stalker, 2 sentry if timed right); expo if successful, or in control
PvT
-Similar as above, but tech straight to Colossus after Robo Facil- UNLESS- You scout a fast starport
-- Attack with 2-3 colossus and a healthy mix of Gateway units
PvP
-Similar up to Robo, but make an Observer first; and focus on Gateway units
-Going Zeal heavy with a mix of stargate units is pretty successful in LATE game; early on focus on Stalkers, as you can often heavily harass your opponent before Charge is tech'd; especially if they go Zeal heavy OR have inferior micro to you.
This is just a brief rundown of your typical builds in Protoss match-ups; sorry to post in an older thread, but I noticed a little activity in here. Hope this helps -
(If anyone wants Replays, I'd be happy to supply them; I was top 10 Platinum in my Division before the fluked Ladder dropped me to 800 point Gold; currently sitting at #1 in my gold division (Had to climb up from last place.. cruel beta ladder :< ))
Speaking in PvT terms, as that's the matchup I've studied the most so far...
From the replays I've seen, it seems that fast robotics is pretty much the toss standard. Honestly I'm not quite sure if that's the best opening, as it leaves you vulnerable in PvT to banshees and immortals are largely overrated in my opinion. They're not super effective against marine/marauder as rines can chew them up rather easily. I've always preferred getting templar tech quickly with a predominant zeal/temp force, mixing in a few stalkers if he goes hard air.
Psistorm wins easily against infantry, and feedback is nice for dealing with a banshee rush, as you can sometimes kill a banshee outright, or at least soften it up for your stalkers. Stalkers alone are not a great counter for banshees and more often than not if the opponent goes heavy banshee, you'll have to start getting some pheonixes. But in any case, it seems that you're a lot better off with templar tech to start with as opposed to robotics. Zealots are absolutely nasty with charge. About the only unit that counters them well is hellions, and few terrans even make those.
In general, you only want to make stalkers if you're forced to as a countermeasure against air as stalkers basically lose against anything the terran throws at you, except for reapers and hellions.
A basic build I've been playing with has been 2 gates to tech.
Pylon, Gate, Gate, Pylon, Assimilator, make 4-5 zealots and do a bit of early pressure along with the pylons to support them, then core followed by twilight council and then temp archives. Get a templar quick, even if it doesn't have psi-storm in case you're being banshee rushed and start work on psistorm and charge, with 4 gateways to make troops.
If the terran is going tanks, you want to research charge quickly (chrono boost it), if he's mostly infantry, chronoboost your storm. If the terran is for whatever reason going full mech, or very tank heavy, then you want to go to robo and get immortals, but thus far from what I've seen, few terrans actually do that, so I don't expect you'd really need to go immortals.
Also, don't underestimate archons. Unlike in SC1, archons are rather effective against terran infantry.
The main issue that you have to worry about tends to be ghosts and EMP, but those can be dealt with by spreading out your temps so they can't all be caught in one EMP. Your temps can also feedback ghosts assuming you can catch them before they EMP you.
I find colossus generally more reliable in an early PvT match as it usually forces the terran player to take the game away from infantry partially; making them swap in a mix of vikings, this reduces their gas pool dramatically and makes ghosts and other gas heavy units less viable.
With a fast robo, an Observer can quickly be charged out to keep watch over the terran player, and banshees are largely easy to deal with once you have one; as they can't cloak, and they are easily ff'd by Stalkers; another option would always be a few phoenix, which aren't largely useless. They're good at harassing SCVs, can lift up tanks and marauders (to let zealots tear their marines up without being slow kited), and burn holes through frail Banshees. Having a stargate up for future Mothership isn't so bad either, as its a pretty strong unit in PvT.
Versus any sort of strong terran player, you WILL NOT be able to harass with zealots, under any circumstance, as both marines and marauders run circles around them, on top of a terran's common strategy to choke ( I don't even bother to choke sometimes in TvP); Alternatively its far better to straight tech to a cyber and so-forth after you first gate, following the guidelines I posted above.
PSI-STORM, my love... You know, I'd honestly like to say its a stronger spell in PvT as than it is. -IF- you don't get EMP'd, it is extremely strong; though EMP generally gets off first, as its a better overall range (Same "range" but larger AoE). This can be slightly remedied with the new upgrade available to Templars, as well as several other Energy based units to increase their starting energy by 25; thus making them able to storm immediately after being created; This, in conjuction with warpgates proves extremely effective on both a push and defensive purposes, given you bring a warp prism or proxy a pylon close to your battle.
---Side note; I just got a NEW account, so I no longer have to share with my buddy. Just finished my placement games, and am back in Platinum =D Time to rip holes in everyone put in front of me.