Well, in early - mid game protoss can't seem to defend against reapers... they continued to build zealots...
wait? what?
Well basically any mobile unit that can harass and kill probes "early-mid-game" will pwn protoss. If you're rushing early game, you can expect AI to lose every single time. Lets hope 6.0 changes that.
well reapers got slightly nerfed now so I feel they are fine.
Quote from: chetjan on March 03, 2010, 05:37:39 PM
well reapers got slightly nerfed now so I feel they are fine.
And Protoss mothership got nerfed for the hell of it.
MotherShip dont have place in SC 2 it have to be removed (pearsonal opinion :> )and they have to put the good old Arbiter.
@kdronez agreed
Mothership is fine. It's basically an arbiter with a new look. Skills are based on the same concept, they just look different. I just don't like having "1" of this "new arbiter".
Totaly agree its arbiter with new look,but IDK man Arbiter was better I think and you can make more units invulnarable,and you can have more than 1 :>.When I 1st saw MotherShip I was wait wait wait so I will make 10 Battles and this crapy ship will suck them all in and kill them WTF xD.
Quote from: kdronez on March 04, 2010, 07:14:55 AMTotaly agree its arbiter with new look,but IDK man Arbiter was better I think and you can make more units invulnarable
invisible*
I personally prefer the Mothership. It can cloak buildings. BUILDINGS! Who doesn't wanna cloak their buildings? :D
Quote from: Artanis186 on March 04, 2010, 07:23:07 AM
Quote from: kdronez on March 04, 2010, 07:14:55 AMTotaly agree its arbiter with new look,but IDK man Arbiter was better I think and you can make more units invulnarable
invisible*
I personally prefer the Mothership. It can cloak buildings. BUILDINGS! Who doesn't wanna cloak their buildings? :D
I dont mean invisible man I mean invulnarable you know with stasis field xD.
wow.. im really having a hard time going against protoss on 1 on 1 using terrans, i got off 5 reapers, about 8 marauders and 15 marines, and also add up 3 - 5 hellions and he sends me a pack of zealots (about 8) 5 stalkers, 3 immortals.. then.. THE END :(
When you see big wave coming just go behinde your block :>.Protoss units will start to try to destroy your supply depos and you will have enough time to kill them :>.Also when you advance use bunkers you can destroy them and get your resources back anyway xD.Cheating AI 5.5 is kinde a stupid after you push back 1st 2-3 waves :>.This is my conclusion after 20+games vs it xD.I'm rly looking to 6.0 it will be awesome if they add all that features \,,/ xD.
First off, Reapers only destroy Protoss when the player (in this case the AI) does not micro his units. Stalkers with blink can easily destroy Reapers. Reapers have such little health, any amount of resistance will utterly destroy them. Now throw in a couple Sentries with force fields to block escape routes, and those Reapers are done.
Quote from: blood_hound on March 04, 2010, 09:40:28 AM
wow.. im really having a hard time going against protoss on 1 on 1 using terrans, i got off 5 reapers, about 8 marauders and 15 marines, and also add up 3 - 5 hellions and he sends me a pack of zealots (about 8) 5 stalkers, 3 immortals.. then.. THE END :(
First off, Reapers should not be apart of your main army. That's not their purpose. They are a harassment unit ONLY. Sending them with your main army completely negates their purpose, and what they are good at.
If you are massing a bio-army like that, then get medivacs and research stim. Stimming your units, while having your medivacs repair the damage, will make your army twice as effective. If you did that, your army would've easily destroyed what the protoss sent your way.
@anyone having trouble in TvP;
Explore your options. 90% of noobs are losing games even on battlenet in TvP because they simply don't explore their options.
Build variety(Try these and rape)
1.Block choke with racks; either go for reaper harass, or never touch your racks again.
2.Tech straight to Starport, make banshees. After about 3-4 make a raven. Use Point Defense + Banshee massive ground damage to rape.
3. If enemy for SOME REASON counters you (Pheonix's), tech cloak; and focus out any observers- Or the extreme hard counter, start making Battlecruisers, These will get semi-countered by voidrays, but phoenix hit them for 2-3 damage only.
Option 2:
1.Only make 2-3 reapers, go harass probes; this must be early as most AI tends to make noobcannons.
2.If you are going marauders vs IMMORTALS; You WILL get raped, unless of course you massively out-number their forces. Tech to either Ghosts (best overall counter) and EMP shot their IMMORTALS to remove their insane shield! - Or - Get Medivac Dropships to help reduce your damage as well; Raven also works, but is a higher tech.
Side note: Thors are not the answer to everything. You will not enjoy doing 10 damage to Immortals and in turn being dismantled by them.
-- These strats are NOT entirely made to versus AI, they are what I use on Battle.net to win probably 90% of my TvP matches; as well as the common strats being displayed in other people's games. If you watch Platinum ladder 1v1's, you will rarely see zealots in Protoss' PvT, even more rarely see a Hellion. Enjoy.
Kingdom, to add to that, go marines against Immortals. It's obvious when a Protoss player favors immortals. When he does that, just mass marines (which is dirt cheap, quick, and very effective). Immortals shields are nothing against a barrage of marines, and they will drop EXTREMELY quickly.
The key is a healthy balance of units. A healthy dose of marines, marauders, one ghost (to EMP at the start of the fight), some medivacs, and a couple special units (depending on their force and the situation at hand) will make your chances of winning much higher. It's all about scouting and knowing what the other player is doing.
Also, and most important, DO NOT FORGET TO UPGRADE! I've seen battles one solely because one person researched and upgraded their units, while the other person didn't and just had a larger number. Upgrades are amazing and can turn the tide of the battle.
Marines with the shield, stimpacks, and upgrades, and 4x more effective than without.
You guys keep saying get this, get that, but the point is that he doesn't have time to react when he actually sees the opponents ball of units coming at him. Sure it looks good on paper going stimmed rines vs immortals, but what if he had gone a different route in the beginning, ie mech. You can't fix your unit choice so quickly with mainly facts up and 1 rax or something. Telling someone to do build this unit or that one doesn't help unless you're trying to give him tips on what unit counters what unit.
The key to choosing the right units relies on scouting, always scout even if your scout dies. Even a small glimpse of what the opponent's army consists of gives a good enough idea of what to expect.
If a player is using reapers for head on attacking, he obviously isn't that experienced. The real problem is not knowing what the opponent has. When he does know, they're already raping his units.
Also, blood_hound, if you've only got 5 reapers, 8 marauders, and 15 marines by the time he has 3 immortals out, your mechanics of the game need some work. 3 immortals is 750 minerals and 300 gas. Including 5 stalkers, that's an addition 625 minerals and 250 gas. Unless you're playing against the AI cheat version or a real person, I don't know how the comp is getting that many resources for units by the time you only have that much of an army. It could be that you're wasting your resources on trying too many structures, or you aren't building enough SCV's to mine.
BOTH builds I mentioned DO counter what he was versus, and what he WILL be versing. Fact is, there ARE things called standard strats, and though scouting is vital; There WILL not be much of a derivative from standards, therefore educating someone in a standard first IS the right way to go.
Trying to teach a new player how to adapt, and react after a scout is a lot harder if they don't even know the basic routes he could take. After trying a few builds on his own, and can BEAT the computer; then how to react can come.
Least that is how I learn, and taught people via Iccup on SC1. Similar to learning anything; you learn the method, before the application.
Quote from: gg.sc2 on March 04, 2010, 12:51:49 PM
You guys keep saying get this, get that, but the point is that he doesn't have time to react when he actually sees the opponents ball of units coming at him. Sure it looks good on paper going stimmed rines vs immortals, but what if he had gone a different route in the beginning, ie mech. You can't fix your unit choice so quickly with mainly facts up and 1 rax or something. Telling someone to do build this unit or that one doesn't help unless you're trying to give him tips on what unit counters what unit.
The key to choosing the right units relies on scouting, always scout even if your scout dies. Even a small glimpse of what the opponent's army consists of gives a good enough idea of what to expect.
If a player is using reapers for head on attacking, he obviously isn't that experienced. The real problem is not knowing what the opponent has. When he does know, they're already raping his units.
Also, blood_hound, if you've only got 5 reapers, 8 marauders, and 15 marines by the time he has 3 immortals out, your mechanics of the game need some work. 3 immortals is 750 minerals and 300 gas. Including 5 stalkers, that's an addition 625 minerals and 250 gas. Unless you're playing against the AI cheat version or a real person, I don't know how the comp is getting that many resources for units by the time you only have that much of an army. It could be that you're wasting your resources on trying too many structures, or you aren't building enough SCV's to mine.
I tell him to get this and get that, but I end it by saying it's not going to matter unless you scout. Mass marines against immortals is a definite win, but if he spawns up a couple templar with psi-storm, it's GG. That's why you want to back up your marines with something like a ghost, to quickly EMP those templar making them utterly useless.
That's also why I said to give a healthy mix of units. NEVER mass just one unit. You will lose. Period.
Quote from: Kingdom on March 04, 2010, 01:03:27 PM
BOTH builds I mentioned DO counter what he was versus, and what he WILL be versing. Fact is, there ARE things called standard strats, and though scouting is vital; There WILL not be much of a derivative from standards, therefore educating someone in a standard first IS the right way to go.
Trying to teach a new player how to adapt, and react after a scout is a lot harder if they don't even know the basic routes he could take. After trying a few builds on his own, and can BEAT the computer; then how to react can come.
Least that is how I learn, and taught people via Iccup on SC1. Similar to learning anything; you learn the method, before the application.
I agree with what you're saying, but I'm just pointing out the fact that you're telling him to choose this route or that one, which are not "standard" builds, they are YOUR strats that you like to use. It's only standard when everyone uses the same method for the same purpose, standardized through extensive experiment to find the strongest builds for certain purposes. You think SC1 had "standard builds" when it first came out? That's why I emphasize scouting, games do derivate from standard, especially now in SC2 that you must adapt even more because of "hard counters". If you learn what units are best against other units, then all you need is scouting information and you can go from there. It's best to build a habit of scouting early on rather than wait it off until you get "semi" good at comp stomping. I'd also rather learn the game inside out and have a better understanding of why go this unit versus that unit than have someone tell me, just because "it's better".