StarCrack AI Official Feedback Thread (V5.5)

[ProoM]

Zerg is fine like it is now. I had a ZvZ incredibly close game, ty for providing so much fun. Terran and Toss are still weak against early/early-mid game harassment by Zerg.

What I hope to see in future versions:

   
• Better micro not just attack - flee - flee - flee -attack, loosing a big amount of units this way.
• Better solutions for dealing with walling, that includes clever use of Nydus Worm, Medivac, Warp gates.
• The AI going for workers or undefended expansions first.
• The AI using his "caster" units abilities.

AI did micro a little against me with his stalkers+zeals, stalkers used blinks when I tried to retreat ^^

AI still lacks of detection tech a lot :S, that's the biggest flaw I currently see. Some probes sometimes bug in xel'naga watchtowers or near my sunken (reacts to sunken like to a unit that he needs to run from, then come back and run again, because sunken is in same place ^^). Everything else is pretty good, haven't lost against AI yet, you are doing a great work, keep it up, gl ^^.

[Nerdy777]

it is scary when devs are trying so much into tweaking the AI to the point that...

we or i mean...the devs of the ai scripts are breeding a monster AI...wahahaha...

so far..i played all of the versions and DEVS I WANNA THANK YOU cause i have not been a good player before but now..im getting better with all those build orders from previous starcraft applied here and modifiying them...

and well 5.5 is the first ai that almost pushed me...but still..i have the feeling that you are still tweaking or improving the ai to a more monstrous way...

ANYWAY THANKS A LOT woooo MORE POWER TO YOU..: ) whoever you are idol

[Artanis186]

Oh, and also. You can see in my replay that the yellow zerg go stupid or something. They like, build a extractor way earlier than everyone else and get their ass kicked.

[Kiamberm]

Where's the easy version? I'm a huge noob.

-but why does it say "Download links: IN ATTACHMENTS
StarCrack AI 5.5 (Non Cheating AI)
StarCrack AI 5.5 (Cheating AI)
StarCrack AI 5.5 (Easy Version) "

then down at the bottom of the post, there are only the first two, no "easy version"?

[Myke]

Just finished a game against Terran playing as Zerg and Terran seemedrather weak. I didn't see a scout and I had a group of 12 lings going,went up, ripped up the mineral line, took out most of their base,retreated, gathered up some roaches and hydralisks, waited a bit,expanded, then launched another attack. They had more buildings up, butnot many units.

Here's the replay of it.

http://www.mediafire.com/?mm50jhjmwdz

Also, I am unsure of how to get replays to load up. I get an "unable to open map" error.

[Mangala]

then down at the bottom of the post, there are only the first two, no "easy version"?

Turd was actually being quite funny and made a copy of the cheat version and labeled it "easy." I think it was his way of getting back at the people who complain about how easy it is every time he comes out with a new version. I would have done the same thing if I spent all day coding only to hear whining.


Just play against the regular AI that comes with the beta if you're huge noob. Work your way up the versions...

[p.W]

Thanks so much for the great work. I'd all but given up on having worthwhile opinions on the game during beta...


One of the biggest problems has to be predictability. Both times the AI beat me it was because I didn't see his strat coming -- mass Carriers in 4FFA and mass zergling rush in 1v1. Unfortunately this is a one-trick wonder... once the cat's out of the bag, it's easy to analyze/beat.


I was wondering if it's possible to throw in some really edgy all-in sort of strats for the early/mid game... like, right now T seems to go mass M&M every game. What if that were only to happen 50% of the time, and the other 50% he'd play defensively, teching ASAP to mass Reapers OR mass Hellions? The uncertainty factor alone should make me play more cautiously.


Also, how about some serious defenses in general? I've yet to see a Planetary Fortress, and that could be a HUGE deterrent to my rushes against a comp's expand.


Just some food for thought. Thanks again.

[Kiamberm]

then down at the bottom of the post, there are only the first two, no "easy version"?

Turd was actually being quite funny and made a copy of the cheat version and labeled it "easy." I think it was his way of getting back at the people who complain about how easy it is every time he comes out with a new version. I would have done the same thing if I spent all day coding only to hear whining.


Just play against the regular AI that comes with the beta if you're huge noob. Work your way up the versions...

Oh, darn.. Alright, well where can I find the older versions? I'm having trouble finding them. :/

-also, how would I go about installing the different AI? Do I need to go in and delete the AI files I already have?

[Andazeus]

Wondering, if by any chance, we'll actually see some real "easier" AI?
Not talking about the old versions... thinking more about the recent versions and all the strategies they use (for variety), while, for example, lowering their APM or so to make them more forgiving on the player.

[Sandwich]

If this was fixed in 5.5 my bad (using 5.0 at the moment). When I beat the AI he sends his workers out and builds bases wherever he possibly can. If I destroy the ai's expo and then attack his main base, 30 seconds later he's already building the expansion again.


It's not really that threatening, just annoying as hell destroying the ai's main base and army, and then having to fly around the map picking off expansion after expansion.


If this was fixed too then my bad. But sometimes I destroy the AI's main force, and leave some forces in front of my expo to defend while I tech more and produce units. The ai has time to rebuild his army, but just sends stragglers at me a few at a time. So by the time I attack his base again, he's got little to defend with.


And the constant attack/retreat dance is annoying, someone said this couldn't be fixed though (unless it has in which case my bad again heh.)

[turdburgler]

Ok, I've read everything and it boils down to.

- Zerg are good, Terran are K, Toss is crap.

Awesome, because I didn't make wave changes to Toss and the ones I made to Terran were rushed. So we ARE in control of when the AI attacks.

- AI doesn't build defences in expands

I'll put some focus on this, I'm pretty sure I can do it easily.

- Attack/retreat crap.

I'll have a really good look into it, I think it's hardcoded but I'm sure we can bypass it eventually.

- Predictability

We're adding different builds. It's a hard process as a new build takes a good few hours to balance and test before it comes up to the same difficulty as others in the AI.

Thanks for the feedback.

EDIT: ^^ This will probably be the changelog for 5.6

EDIT 2: The cheating easy mode was a mistake. I've taken it down because I haven't had a chance to fix it. I wasn't messing with anybody 

[creamsoda]

Turd was actually being quite funny and made a copy of the cheatversion and labeled it "easy." I think it was his way of getting backat the people who complain about how easy it is every time he comes outwith a new version. I would have done the same thing if I spent all daycoding only to hear whining.

lol.. you have a great imagination 

[Artanis186]

The Protoss are the easiest, I'll agree. But something in them feels like (in terms of human-like) they're smarter. I hadn't payed TOO much attention on it, but the Probes in their base actually made a strike force on my units when they didn't have any normal units to attack with. I'll look more into this vs the other races.

[krutoistudent]

Ok, I've read everything and it boils down to.

- Zerg are good, Terran are K, Toss is crap.

Awesome, because I didn't make wave changes to Toss and the ones I made to Terran were rushed. So we ARE in control of when the AI attacks.

- AI doesn't build defences in expands

I'll put some focus on this, I'm pretty sure I can do it easily.

- Attack/retreat crap.

I'll have a really good look into it, I think it's hardcoded but I'm sure we can bypass it eventually.

- Predictability

We're adding different builds. It's a hard process as a new build takes a good few hours to balance and test before it comes up to the same difficulty as others in the AI.

Thanks for the feedback.

EDIT: ^^ This will probably be the changelog for 5.6

EDIT 2: The cheating easy mode was a mistake. I've taken it down because I haven't had a chance to fix it. I wasn't messing with anybody 

and there are two more things
1) unit conter, example: when i make a reaper vs zerg/toss the game basicly over, cause i can hit and run with the reaper and kill all lings/zealots, problem here is neither toss or zerg switch to raged units (roaches/stalker) they just keep trying to defend with lings/zealots
other example: i play toss vs zerg, i tech fast to phoenix then gravity on queen and kill it with phoenix, after that snipe all overlords and the game is over (<5min) , because zerg dont build anti air buildigs

with this two examples i just want to say, that ai have to adapt to what opponent builds, i dont know how much you guys can change the way the ai works, but this is serious, you can quite in every matchup easy win when you use the right units

2) the macro mode of the Ai is a joke, after 7-8mins its like ai is afk
example: me zerg vs terran, i go fast expasion fast lair tech with lots of ling support , morphin to bomblings (no clue their real name) and crashing terrans force and then pumping from 2hatch + 2queens mass lings and gg (game last <7-8min) , because ai can not keep up with unit production
other example: me toss vs zerg ai, fast expansion with canons behind buildings so rouches can not hit canons, but canons can hit rouches (rouches shorter range attack) and teching to immortals zealots armee, then moving out and raping the zerg ai just with one attack (<10min)


thats two really important things for ai
anyway its great someone is doing this
i played a few games vs ai and basicly not a single game lasted over 10min , its a bit disapointing ;(, but i am probably the only one here who actually played on bnet sc2 (a friend of my friend has a key and so i was able to play overall about 12-13games^^)

@ ai creater, if you want to make good ai but dont want to make it unfair (i.e. carriers after 1min ) i can offer myself as tester, i would test it on macro level and on strategie level (where it has to adapt to my build or else it will be crashed)
though i have exam on thursday, so i am quite busy but i can spare 1hour at evening for this since i really like what you guys doing

[krutoistudent]

and for all the people who would love to watch their replays or replays of other played versus ai, there is a simple solution:
1) move all ai maps into cache/download/
2) all replays are auto saved, when the maps are in cache/download folder, you will be able to watch the replays in the recent folder

example for win7:
1) C:\Users\"your user name"\AppData\Local\Blizzard Entertainment\Battle.net\Cache\Download
2) C:\Users\"your user name"\Documents\StarCraft II Beta\Replays\Recent

so if you want to show someone your replay, you will need to send him the map aswell
i recommend you to make a short cut to both folders, so you have fast access to them

enjoy watching replays versus ai 
allright gotta go and study now