DarkBlizz

Alright, looking over scripts in latest starcrack 6.0 it appears that the team is implementing pretty much everything I was working on. Don't have the time atm to be able to keep up with a dedicated team of devs Instead I'm going to poke around their scripts some more and see if I can suggest some minor improvements or whatnot. Might wanna unsticky the thread since I want be able to keep my AI up to par anymore.

They're called "hard" because they're many orders of magnitude "harder" than original VeryEasy AI that comes with official beta. They're not actually difficult to beat yet. To get them up to par with human players would probably take weeks of development by modders here and elsewhere. Blizzard's own Hard and VeryHard AI's are much, much harder to beat I'm sure. But the script files (and possibly even some functions) are not in the beta so we can't use them :\

Just a small update, sorry it's taking so long, but just like turdburgler i am in the process of rewriting a lot of original code.

I really wish blizzard gave us more to work with But I guess we're not supposed to be "beta testing" galaxy editor yet :>

Quote from: JPeterson on March 03, 2010, 06:59:49 PM

Quote from: Gamewiz on March 03, 2010, 04:38:16 PM
Please please please make the AI destroy rocks and things to get to other areas or expansions. Places like Kulas Ravine are so easily exploitable because the AI will *not* destroy rocks

There is no known way to make the AI do that. It will automatically destroy rocks that are in the way of the optimal hall placement. But they will not destroy any other rocks.

Well it's technically possible to create a group of units and force them to destroy a neutral building at specific location but it would be too much work for a relatively small gain. Our AIs have bigger problems atm.

Quote from: Jak on March 03, 2010, 12:37:46 AM

Quote from: killabyte on March 02, 2010, 11:06:06 PM
i've tried all of them.  this one actually beat me a couple times because i underestimated it.  it seems as if the AI loves to attack one another then me.  i played 3 different times in a row and this happened.  otherwise definitely a step in the right direction.

i was playing this version for the first time...and i was underestimating it too....then on a 3 way ffa i was fending off toss with ground units and suddenly terran came with 8 bcs from the back and woop my ass.....scare the shit out of me...then played a tvz...i build some dts and the computer couldnt figure out how to see cloak units.....it kept sending overlords to my dts lol...overlords not overseers...so i back off for a while....like 10-15 mins and came back, still no detectors

I'll fix detectors for next version.

Quote from: ooni on March 02, 2010, 04:42:32 AM
goose, this one doesn't load, prob wrong version
Better fix and reupload.

Hmm, I re-uploaded it... it loads fine for me though :<

Do you have a modded Base.SC2Data? If you do, try rewriting it with mine - http://www.mediafire.com/?2nenlfbjtjf .

New version is up.

New version is up.

Quote from: Twinfun on March 01, 2010, 05:07:30 PM

Quote from: goosie on March 01, 2010, 04:31:00 PMWhen AI goes through functions during a particular phase (there's Open, GroundA, GroundB, LateGround and similar ones for Air tactics), it executes stock commmands in the order they're written. It won't move on to the next Stock command without making sure the previous Stock values are all satisfied. So if you do something like

AISetStock( player, 8, C_ZU_Drone );
AISetStock( player, 1, C_ZB_Gateway );

it won't build gateway until you have 8 drones. If you lose a drone to a rush or w/e and the AI is still on that phase, it will go back and make sure you're back up to 8 drones before moving on to the rest of the script.

Makes sense accept for:

If I were to, say, tell the AI to build 10 zealots first without explicitly specifying it must build a Gateway, will it figure out on it's own the buildings it will need to complete the next task?

EDIT: How about it knowing to build Pylons?

ANOTHER EDIT: Thanks to the 1v1 Observer map posted up by Blackcode, I was easily able to test this. The AI will build the Gateway when it finds it requires one without being explicitly told.

It will also build pylons as long as you have an AIDefaultEconomy() (sp?) function in there somewhere for each phase.

Quote from: Diphoria on March 01, 2010, 04:58:55 AM
From there, they sent in armies and i'm not sure if its a limitation of the engine but it seems as soon as you run in with any force which looks bigger they do that weird dance where they take a step forward, then run away.

I haven't been able to find the trigger that causes this behavior but it pisses me off too. The underlying issue is that AI likes to send in small armies often instead of a big one once in a while.

Quote from: ooni on March 01, 2010, 06:33:27 AM
This AI
Thisone has horrible Early Phase but has good Middle and Late game. It doesnot consume a lot of resources early game making the overall gamestronger (but spends so little that AI just gets pwned by tier 1 rush).Haven't played End game with this AI yet. If the maker of this AI canfind a way to spend more resources if the enemy isn't teching andrushing then this will be a great AI.

Bad things about both of AI (a.k.a. suggestions)
BothAIs suffer in terms of moving their units back when they are able towin the battle and not moving back when they will subsequently lose.

Theyare too predictable. They never counter (I know AIs are still WIP butthis would be a good idea), in fact they have the exact same buildevery time.

I mentioned earlier there are strengths/weaknessesin different stages of the AIs, when playing v5.0 you will tech, andwhen playing against this one you will rush.

Good feedback, ty. The early phase thing is kind of on purpose.

I'm trying to script a decently entertaining AI without letting itcheat. ATM it is also very difficult to let it adjust to what the humanplayer is doing. So the solution is to give it a rigid, balanced buildorder that is unfortunately going to be very weak against certain typesof gameplay. None of the current AI can both beat rushes AND remaincompetitive in late game, they either rush and build low tier armythemselves or tech as quickly as possible and make a late game army(mine does this).

QuoteThough they are stillpretty easy if you choose to play in any other way. I mean why attack abunker when there are 10 SCVs repairing it, wouldn't Blizzard hard codeit so that the enemy units would attack the SCVs first? It's a shame,looks like Blizzard hasn't finished basics of AI movements/prioritiesyet(not even close). I hope they do by June.

I'm sure blizzard either finished higher quality AI or is putting finishing touches on it The problem with beta AI is that it's hard coded to play on "very easy." In fact, there's even a script file called MeleeAINotHard that overwrites basic AI with simplified mechanics. By default AI doesn't even build more than 8 probes up to Hard difficulty :/ Build orders, triggers, etc for higher difficulty modes are all completely missing. Only the basic AI functions (like building stuff, combat targeting, etc) remain. We're forced to work with what we have.

Quote from: Twinfun on March 01, 2010, 04:12:42 PM
I will make new topic if an admin states it is necessary, but does the second parameter in:

Code Select Expand

AISetStock( player, 8, C_ZU_Drone );

represent the amount to be stocked? IE, would that line in particular set the AI priority to having at least 8 drones? Or does it represent a different meaning.
Also I would like to know where the the function definition of AISetStock is because I'm having trouble locating it.

When AI goes through functions during a particular phase (there's Open, GroundA, GroundB, LateGround and similar ones for Air tactics), it executes stock commmands in the order they're written. It won't move on to the next Stock command without making sure the previous Stock values are all satisfied. So if you do something like

AISetStock( player, 8, C_ZU_Drone );
AISetStock( player, 1, C_ZB_Gateway );

it won't build gateway until you have 8 drones. If you lose a drone to a rush or w/e and the AI is still on that phase, it will go back and make sure you're back up to 8 drones before moving on to the rest of the script.

Thanks in advance!

Quote
EDIT: Anyone discover the difference between AISetStock and AIAddStringInt?

As far as I can tell the main difference is the ability to pass additional parameters to AIAddStringInt, like c_StockAlways or c_StockIdle. (edit: nevermind, confused this function with AISetStockUnitNext).  Both functions appear to add units and building to queue in exactly the same way though, so if you have something like

AISetStock( player, 10, C_ZU_Zealot );
AISetStock( player, 8, C_ZU_Stalker );

AI won't start building Stalkers until you have 10 zealots. Which kind of sucks if they get attacked while in the process of building their army. The only work around atm is to tell AI to build smaller numbers of alternating units (say, 2 zealots, 1 stalker, 2 zealots, 1 stalker etc).

Quote from: ooni on March 01, 2010, 03:37:26 AM
how does this differ from AI v5? Is it harder?

Yes...

V4 - http://www.mediafire.com/?mkj5zojqz2u (tons of small tweaks, no more twitchy retreats looks like)

If you had StarCrack or any other AI mods use this instead: http://www.mediafire.com/?2nenlfbjtjf (v4) (put the Base.SC2Data file into SC2\Mods\Liberty.SC2Mod\)

Unzip into SC2 installation directory. glhf!

AI has normal resource gathering rate, can only see map via scouting, and can expand. It will build workers and use build orders similar to human players, so expect multiple production buildings, stationary base defenses etc. AI performs better on larger maps due to current inability to deal with early rushes very well.