StarCrack AI Official Feedback Thread (V5.5)

[turdburgler]

JPeterson do you wanna take a look at getting the AI to build defences in his expansions? I'm not at home, but it will be awesome to get that done. There's a function that lets you choose where you build, you have to be careful, if you put in each loop he will just build millions, do a tech check in midgame for each of the races to see if they've got a fair amount of defences in main and expansions.

[aggressivEn00b]

great job on the ai


however it needs to learn how to drop
just check this vid out http://w818.wrzuta.pl/film/7b366sdLH8H/2 (there might be commercial before it plays, sorry bout that)
its 5.5 non-cheating ai
if i get my entrance well defended i might be sitting inside without any problems for as long as i wanted
z hits the cap limit and still no idea how to enter my base, it really needs some new ideas or at least stop wasting his units (he keeps coming and retreating after 1 or 2 units down)


if not better pathfinding, then drops would be great way to go imho
anyway, great work with the ai so far, keep it up

[JPeterson]

There's a function that lets you choose where you build

Ok, Kernel64 mentioned that too. I'm not familiar with that though. If someone can help feel free to post a patch file for the svn.

however it needs to learn how to drop

That's probably because it hadn't researched overlord transport yet. Currently we have overlord transport early in the late game, here. We could consider placing it earlier in the game if that works better.

[KillMasterCZ]

Macro of the AI is getting very good, however its micro is very bad. When our armies met each other, his was quite bigger (i had 4zealots, 4stalkers, 1sentry and he had 20 marines, 5 morothers), but he just begun walking around my army until i completely destroyed him (i lost no unit in this fight, he lost everything). Why is that?

[Rahab]

Awesome news! During my game with a toss player I saw him upgrade his armor shields and attacks (AIR) by one! Oh and yes I noticed Protoss start to mass Archons+Carriers after awhile like most people have said..

[pixartist]

y we need to major things changed right now
- micro is weird, sometimes they dont attack at all, most of the time they retreat even though they could win
- if you wall in, they will NEVER win, they don't seem to understand that they have to attack the wallin or drop in our base

[Gamewiz]

The problem with the wall-in ability, or any heavy defenses for that matter, will almost always win any battle in any RTS I've ever played, and I've played almost all of them. It's because the AI (at least none I've seen to date), can't truly adapt and react according to their environment. Just in how putting pressure on a human opponent will help guarantee success, walling in and just waiting out the computer opponent is the way to go.

The only RTS games where I've noticed this doesn't work is when the AI uses units that outrange defensive units. This forces the player to push forward past their wall of defenses in order to win. Unfortunately, the AI here doesn't take advantage of that, when they should. For instance, a Zerg AI player should build some Brood Lords so they can wither down a terran defense with ease.

Just an idea.

[Pleomax]

First off all thank you guys for the constant updates and making things better <3.
I only tryed 5.5 in one game aparently if you rush them they are verry weak. They get no defence up . . .atleast the prot and mid game theyer defence is "random" and still not much of a challange and alot of duplicate and usless buildings.

[Gamewiz]

Here is another thing I noticed: The AI NEVER protects it's expansions. Their expansions always consist of nothing other than the two gas buildings, and their command building. That's it. It's so easy to completely and utterly destroy a computer's economy by continual harassment of their unprotected expansions with small raiders like cloaked banshees, mutas, reapers, etc.

[lantay77]

I think there's a function that allows you to specify where the building is to be built. I have no clue yet how to work this. Maybe using townOne, townTwo, etc.? Or using SetMainTown?

That would be interesting if we can find that.

The function is

Code Select Expand

native void AIBuild (int player, int priority, int town, string aliasUnitType, int count, int flags);
AIBuild ( player, 1, c_townMain, c_PB_Gateway, 1, -1);
AIBuild ( player, 1, c_townOne, c_PB_Gateway, 1, -1);


[aggressivEn00b]

Here is another thing I noticed: The AI NEVER protects it's expansions. Their expansions always consist of nothing other than the two gas buildings, and their command building. That's it. It's so easy to completely and utterly destroy a computer's economy by continual harassment of their unprotected expansions with small raiders like cloaked banshees, mutas, reapers, etc.

exactly, same thing crossed my mind
it might be ok if i couldnt keep up destroying his bases, but i can and undefended is piece of cake once i get his main force down

[ElvishSolution]

I'm still doing my analysis of v5.5 but for the most part everything I noticed about this version has already been mentioned.  Build order timing is great now, expanding is appropriate, now we need to focus on bringing up AI micro, counters, and proper defense methods - with that done then we'll really have some challenging AI.  Can't wait for the new versions. 


On another note - I think it should be made clear by someone that Blizzard DID_NOT include the full list of AI functions and commands, as such it will take a considerably amount of time for the devs to rebuild the list from scratch.  Because of this it will take considerably longer to eliminate some parts of AI behavior - such as the running back and forth we'v all seen.  Fixing that will take much longer than forcing them AI to build X unit at X time, because Blizzard did not include a proper function for big AI army control.


To the Devs:  I am going to be purchasing a SC2 Beta Key on e-bay in the next couple of weeks, and once I do I will promptly provide some Wireshark captures of logins + play - I can't give a definitive ETA as the Beta key (assuming I win the auction) will be a birthday gift.


-Elvish

[green2000]

I think toss are weak, try to study this game:
Starcraft II Artosis vs. Louder MLG King of the Beta Hill.

[itsarabbit]

Very long happy post

-Elvish

Wow, thats great news, about the beta key, that is. Hopefully blizzard wont notice this and buy the key for 3000$

Anyways, I have seen some pretty stupid gameplay from the toss, but you've probably seen most of it.
One TvP game from me:
-the toss started out pretty good, tried to scout me, but I had already built supply depots in the way.
-Later, he tried to scout me again, but I hadn't destroyed my depots, obviously.
-He attacked me, with ungathered forces, I only saw like two units.
-I countered with a few troops, got my ass whopped thanks to an immortal.
-I gathered a decent force and attacked him, won the battle with 3 siege tanks and a marauder left, and I had destroyed his natural.
-He attacked my siege tanks once, with about a zealot and a stalkers, I got confused, and built a force to defend the siege tanks.
-I attacked his main, and got surprised! I saw 1 high templar that didn't do shit and that high templar got owned.
-I won.

[turdburgler]

I think there's a function that allows you to specify where the building is to be built. I have no clue yet how to work this. Maybe using townOne, townTwo, etc.? Or using SetMainTown?

That would be interesting if we can find that.

The function is

Code Select Expand

native void AIBuild (int player, int priority, int town, string aliasUnitType, int count, int flags);
AIBuild ( player, 1, c_townMain, c_PB_Gateway, 1, -1);
AIBuild ( player, 1, c_townOne, c_PB_Gateway, 1, -1);


Exactly. Coupled with a tech check for each town to see if they've got stuff.

Working on this now actually.