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Game On => Land of AI => STARCRAFT II: WINGS OF LIBERTY => AI Scripts => Topic started by: AlsoKnownAs on April 09, 2010, 09:59:01 AM

Title: Humanik V1.0.0
Post by: AlsoKnownAs on April 09, 2010, 09:59:01 AM
Hi everyone,

Just to let you guys know that I'm currently building an AI which at the moment defeats Starcrack 7.0 AI every single round of its play. It's coding is based on a human-like ability to recognize and predict an opponent's pattern and build in ways to counter it.

Currently, it's at the stage where I'm coding specifically for the Protoss race against the other races. I'll post it once its done. :D

Believe me, it'll be one of the most challenging AI that you'll be ever playing against, and yes, that includes pro players too.
Title: Re: Humanik V1.0.0
Post by: logo on April 09, 2010, 10:08:29 AM
I believe you. ::)
Title: Re: Humanik V1.0.0
Post by: whoamI on April 09, 2010, 10:24:03 AM
You should play against strategy 0.31 with triggerlibs. Strategy is by far the best right now. You should study it.
Title: Re: Humanik V1.0.0
Post by: AlsoKnownAs on April 09, 2010, 11:55:58 AM
Strategy 0.31 has full vision of the whole map and that is considered cheating, what I'm coding has no cheats applied, so that's why I've only tested my AI on non-cheating AI only.
Title: Re: Humanik V1.0.0
Post by: TheLeapist on April 09, 2010, 01:02:22 PM
I believe you dude. And if it's beating StarCrack 7 then I am excited to try it.


Keep up the good work! :thumbsup:
Title: Re: Humanik V1.0.0
Post by: brightb on April 09, 2010, 02:22:37 PM
Quote from: AlsoKnownAs on April 09, 2010, 09:59:01 AM
Just to let you guys know that I'm currently building an AI which at the moment defeats Starcrack 7.0 AI every single round of its play.
how can you start a game with 2 different AIs?

Quote from: AlsoKnownAs link=topic=1633.msg15600#msg15600   date=1270832158
Strategy 0.31 has full vision of the whole map and   that is considered cheating, what I'm coding has no cheats applied, so   that's why I've only tested my AI on non-cheating AI only.
there is a non-cheating version of strategy ai 0.31 that supposedly has no vision
Title: Re: Humanik V1.0.0
Post by: whoamI on April 09, 2010, 02:42:13 PM
Quote from: AlsoKnownAs on April 09, 2010, 11:55:58 AM
Strategy 0.31 has full vision of the whole map and that is considered cheating, what I'm coding has no cheats applied, so that's why I've only tested my AI on non-cheating AI only.


You haven't done your homework I think. 0.31 has a non cheating version... So you should go on and test it.. IDK how you are able to test two different AIs but if you can...
Title: Re: Humanik V1.0.0
Post by: AlsoKnownAs on April 09, 2010, 03:25:28 PM
I've tested strategy 0.31 without vision, not even close to winning my AI  :jig: . And if you wish to test your AI, you'll need to do some code modification within meleeai.galaxy, protoss.galaxy, terran.galaxy and zerg.galaxy. It'll be easier to test a race specific AI compared to a generic AI code which applies to all races. You'll get what I mean when you get yourself down to coding some  ;D

One more thing, when there's no major modification in most of the "important .galaxy" files, it's easy to blend their codes together to make 2 separate AIs in one game.
Title: Re: Humanik V1.0.0
Post by: ev- on April 09, 2010, 04:31:39 PM
Great thing is you cannot let diffrent AIs compete since you can only load one AI...

:whistle:
Title: Re: Humanik V1.0.0
Post by: whoamI on April 09, 2010, 04:47:48 PM
I see.., you probably insert your code for a certain race inside another AI.. but then again you are not able to play the same race with different code(not that it is that important).

But have you tested its triggers? cause if you load them strategy is able to harass.. he sent reapers to my mineral line and vikings also..

Anyway if there is a test version you could bring it up.
Title: Re: Humanik V1.0.0
Post by: AlsoKnownAs on April 09, 2010, 05:18:14 PM
ev- (http://darkblizz.org/Forum2/../../profile/?u=4673), who told you that we can't load different AI's in one game? I can load 8 different AI for 8 different computer players, here's an example code for you:
Quotevoid AIMeleeZerg (int player) {
    int mainState = AIState(player, e_mainState);

    if(player == 1)
   {
    if (mainState == e_mainState_Init)              { ZergInit(player);       }

    else if (mainState == e_mainState_OpenGnd0)     { ZergOpenGnd0(player);   }
    else if (mainState == e_mainState_OpenGnd1)     { ZergOpenGnd1(player);   }
    else if (mainState == e_mainState_OpenGnd2)     { ZergOpenGnd2(player);   }

    else if (mainState == e_mainState_Mid0)         { ZergMid0(player);       }
    else if (mainState == e_mainState_Mid1)         { ZergMid1(player);       }
    else if (mainState == e_mainState_Mid2)         { ZergMid2(player);       }

    else if (mainState == e_mainState_Late0)        { ZergLate0(player);      }
    else if (mainState == e_mainState_Late1)        { ZergLate1(player);      }
    else if (mainState == e_mainState_Late2)        { ZergLate2(player);      }
   
    else if (mainState == e_mainState_Off)          { EndMeleeScript(player); }
    else if (mainState == e_mainState_Disabled)     {  }
    else { ErrorMeleeScript(player, "Invalid mainState"); }

    }
    else if (player == 2)
    {
      if (mainState == e_mainState_Init)              { ZergInit(player);       }

      else if (mainState == e_mainState_OpenGnd0)     { _ZergOpenGnd0(player);   }
      else if (mainState == e_mainState_OpenGnd1)     { _ZergOpenGnd1(player);   }
      else if (mainState == e_mainState_OpenGnd2)     { _ZergOpenGnd2(player);   }
 
      else if (mainState == e_mainState_Mid0)         { _ZergMid0(player);       }
      else if (mainState == e_mainState_Mid1)         { _ZergMid1(player);       }
      else if (mainState == e_mainState_Mid2)         { _ZergMid2(player);       }
 
      else if (mainState == e_mainState_Late0)        { _ZergLate0(player);      }
      else if (mainState == e_mainState_Late1)        { _ZergLate1(player);      }
      else if (mainState == e_mainState_Late2)        { _ZergLate2(player);      }
 
      else if (mainState == e_mainState_Off)          { EndMeleeScript(player); }
        else if (mainState == e_mainState_Disabled)     {  }
        else { ErrorMeleeScript(player, "Invalid mainState"); }
     }
   
}

Use your imagination, there's nothing that can't be done  8) . As for the rest, just do the same thing.

whoamI,
I will upload as soon as it's done, I'm making it human-like (> 90%), I'm using everything at my disposal now  :D . And you can play the same race with different codes, as soon above. There are different ways of implementing different codes in the AI.
Title: Re: Humanik V1.0.0
Post by: whoamI on April 09, 2010, 05:52:04 PM
Yes, yes you are right.. but what if he chooses to play the same "open"? haha :P

anyway even if it's not done completely you can let us test for you, to bring up misses, bugs and things you should implement..
Title: Re: Humanik V1.0.0
Post by: StubbornRock on April 09, 2010, 06:37:06 PM
I believe in you MR.Also, if your AI does succeed in beta Strategy and Starcrack then you are doing a great favor to the SC2 fans out here. So thank you and good luck on ur AI.
Title: Re: Humanik V1.0.0
Post by: unclean on April 10, 2010, 03:33:11 AM
Damn, if it really can beat strategy 0.31 I'm hyped for this.

Got a question though - how does your ai choose what units and buildings to make?

I'm asking because Strategy AI basically makes units based off of what it scouts, yet makes buildings and expos based off of how much vespene and minerals it has at any given time. It's really an inefficient way to do things since it ends up making way too many production buildings and tech it doesn't even need, which really holds it back from being competitive.

Anyways I can't wait to try this, keep it up man  :thumbsup:
Title: Re: Humanik V1.0.0
Post by: xie860621 on April 10, 2010, 05:02:10 AM
I think you should test with Aiur AI.
Strategy AI is based on  full vision of the whole map ,so  it without vision is easy.
Title: Re: Humanik V1.0.0
Post by: AlsoKnownAs on April 10, 2010, 06:52:35 AM
I'm uploading a video on Strategy 0.13 VS. Humanik V1.0.0, it should be available on youtube in 2 hours or so XD.

xie860621 (http://darkblizz.org/Forum2/../../../profile/?u=4787),thanks for recommending  ;D , I'll look into it when I have time, will reply you a.s.a.p XD
Title: Re: Humanik V1.0.0
Post by: logo on April 10, 2010, 07:01:14 AM
Latest version of Strategy AI is 0.31 not 0.13. :anono:
Title: Re: Humanik V1.0.0
Post by: AlsoKnownAs on April 10, 2010, 07:05:18 AM
opps  :-X , I've uploaded the wrong video -_-, I'll upload the V0.31 and Starcrack 7.0 by this week  :cheers: .
Title: Re: Humanik V1.0.0
Post by: AlsoKnownAs on April 10, 2010, 11:19:22 AM
Anyway, here's the replay between Humanik V1.0.0 versus Strategy AI V0.13, I'll upload versus against 0.31 and Starcrack 7.0 by this week or so  :) .

StarCraft 2 Beta (Wings of Liberty) Humanik V1.0.0 [VS.] Strategy V0.13 - AI Versus AI (Part 1) (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RHlTCfGdzWc#) (Part 1)
StarCraft 2 Beta (Wings of Liberty) Humanik V1.0.0 [VS.] Strategy V0.13 - AI Versus AI (Part 2) (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=f-_Vi-dNlv4#) (Part 2)
Title: Re: Humanik V1.0.0
Post by: whoamI on April 10, 2010, 12:57:57 PM
You should really play against 0.31 to improve your AI..
Title: Re: Humanik V1.0.0
Post by: StubbornRock on April 10, 2010, 01:01:57 PM
Very nice, and that is what I am talking about that strategy expand too fast without knowing that his opponent is massing army(it always expand at 8min or something). Try vs terran strategy AI next time. After all I think the terran AI is somewhat better functioned than the other two races.
http://darkblizz.org/Forum2/ai-discussion/ai-wats-to-improve/ (http://darkblizz.org/Forum2/ai-discussion/ai-wats-to-improve/)
no one ever comment on my suggestions T.T, am I that short sighted?
Title: Re: Humanik V1.0.0
Post by: klaretos on April 10, 2010, 01:58:29 PM
Great work AKA! I loved your commentary during the videos, can't wait to try it out!
Title: Re: Humanik V1.0.0
Post by: whoamI on April 11, 2010, 04:06:55 AM
^ lol
Title: Re: Humanik V1.0.0
Post by: AlsoKnownAs on April 11, 2010, 09:20:55 AM
Strategy 0.31 (non-cheating) is doing the same thing as 0.13, tested and the results are the same, no scouting and expanding while having too much assumptions, I'll post the replays anyhow  :D .

Has some variations of strategy over the past, yet still doing the same mistake of not scouting and expanding too fast.
Title: Re: Humanik V1.0.0
Post by: B_w_S on April 11, 2010, 02:36:44 PM
Quote from: AlsoKnownAs on April 10, 2010, 11:19:22 AM
Anyway, here's the replay between Humanik V1.0.0 versus Strategy AI V0.13, I'll upload versus against 0.31 and Starcrack 7.0 by this week or so  :) .
I don't really believe that this test can be considered very valid. Strategy AI is completely based on having full vision. There is nothing coded to let it scout. Putting yours up against it without its vision was kind-of like fighting a blind guy.

Regardless, keep up the good work. I'll look forward to seeing updates from you soon!  ;D
Title: Re: Humanik V1.0.0
Post by: AlsoKnownAs on April 11, 2010, 03:37:12 PM
QuoteI don't really believe that this test can be considered very valid.  Strategy AI is completely based on having full vision. There is nothing  coded to let it scout. Putting yours up against it without its vision  was kind-of like fighting a blind guy.
B_w_S, there is a version (non-cheating) where it indeed does not have map vision as checked by me  :) , it only scouts during mid/late game. As shown in the MeleeAI.galaxy below:

Quote// AISetDifficulty(player, c_diffNormalVision, false);
    AISetDifficulty(player, c_diffLimitAPM, false);
    AISetDifficulty(player, c_diffAutoLoadBunkers, true);
    AISetDifficulty(player, c_diffEarlyGameRepair, true);
    AISetDifficulty(player, c_diffEnableDangerMap, true);
    AISetDifficulty(player, c_diffWaveAvoidDanger, true);
    AISetDifficulty(player, c_diffNormalTargetPrio, true);
    AISetDifficulty(player, c_diffEarlyDefenseScout, false);
   // AISetDifficulty(player, c_diffNormalVision, false);

He did blank out the vision and when i did a test count on global units with FOW enabled, it indeed shows that Strategy 0.31 (Non-cheating) does not have vision.

The purpose of us benchmarking against other AIs is to make a better one out of the many for the many SC2 fans  :cheers: .
Title: Re: Humanik V1.0.0
Post by: Artanis186 on April 11, 2010, 10:04:35 PM
Humanik suicided half of his forces without dealing any damage though... and the immortals weren't focusing on the Roaches. Humanik won purely because he had the advantage (He was programmed specifically for non-cheating, unlike Strategy).
Title: Re: Humanik V1.0.0
Post by: AlsoKnownAs on April 12, 2010, 01:29:42 AM
Thanks Artanis for replying :D, as said in the short description of the video, Humanik is still under development and the path it takes to retreat is not perfect yet  :D . As for attacks on selective units, it is up to the AI to determine whether it wants to attack the roaches with immortal, imagine this situation:

Quote4 zerglings and 2 roaches when faced by 1 immortal and 1 zealot, should it (immortal) kill the 4 zerglings first when they are not in range to attack and while having a zealot in the frontline? Note that the hardened shield reduces high damage to 10 and per attack of the roach will be reduced to 10 instead of its full damage. When the zerglings reaches a specific range to attack it, it will deal more damage per seconds and it only takes 2 shots to kill 1, instead of 3 shots to kill one roach, what I'm trying to say is, the ability to analyze in a battle is complex and is still under major revision, decisions making is subject to comments and ideas given by most of the SC2 players

Thanks alot for your observation  :thumbsup: !.
Title: Re: Humanik V1.0.0
Post by: itsarabbit on April 12, 2010, 11:54:44 AM
Quote from: AlsoKnownAs on April 12, 2010, 01:29:42 AM
Thanks Artanis for replying :D , as said in the short description of the video, Humanik is still under development and the path it takes to retreat is not perfect yet  :D . As for attacks on selective units, it is up to the AI to determine whether it wants to attack the roaches with immortal, imagine this situation:

Quote4 zerglings and 2 roaches when faced by 1 immortal and 1 zealot, should it (immortal) kill the 4 zerglings first when they are not in range to attack and while having a zealot in the frontline? Note that the hardened shield reduces high damage to 10 and per attack of the roach will be reduced to 10 instead of its full damage. When the zerglings reaches a specific range to attack it, it will deal more damage per seconds and it only takes 2 shots to kill 1, instead of 3 shots to kill one roach, what I'm trying to say is, the ability to analyze in a battle is complex and is still under major revision, decisions making is subject to comments and ideas given by most of the SC2 players

Thanks alot for your observation  :thumbsup: !.
So, you choose between killing 2 roaches and 3 lings? Any decent player would kill the roaches, even if they were out of range.
A zealot can almost kill 4 lings by itself, so there would only be one ling left and no roaches by the time the zealot is dead.
If the immortal would've gone for the lings first, the zealot would've gotten focus-fired and you would've only killed 3 lings before that happened, and then have 1 ling and 2 roaches left to deal with.
Title: Re: Humanik V1.0.0
Post by: AlsoKnownAs on April 12, 2010, 01:44:29 PM
 itsarabbit, thanks for commenting :).First of all, to correct some minor assumptions from you, a zealot is not able to clear 4 zerglings by itself + when there's 2 roaches firing at it, that would be more of an issue (And how would you know that the roaches ain't micro manage to avoid your focus fire? That would be a waste of time trying to shoot it while at the meantime having your zealot getting killed). Anyhow, the simulation of such a situation is not done by me but by my other team members and I'm only giving you an easy example compared to a more complex one.

Here's the replay between Strategy AI V0.31, any extra comments on the video is available on YouTube, happy watching  :D :

Part 1:
Starcraft 2 Beta (Humanik V1.0.1 VS. Strategy AI V0.31) - Clash of the AI's (PART 1) (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DYF0fHQz8Gg&fmt=22#ws)

Part 2:
Starcraft 2 Beta (Humanik V1.0.1 VS. Strategy AI V0.31) - Clash of the AI's (PART 2) (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7sMJtBdzw4s&fmt=22#ws)
Title: Re: Humanik V1.0.0
Post by: sur_real on April 12, 2010, 03:46:34 PM
Looking good, one problem though (not that big though), imo mineral fields are over saturated with probes (at one point in the video you can see ~30 probes on the unit count for natural only; who Humanik had no expo)

you can check this thread for more information http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=113577 (http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=113577)
Title: Re: Humanik V1.0.0
Post by: AlsoKnownAs on April 12, 2010, 04:16:10 PM
hi sur_real, thanks for commenting :D .

We have done our research on the saturation of harvesters in a town, basically each mineral can accommodate up to 3 gatherers. So an amount of 30 would be considered the point of saturation (8 minerals count and 2 vespene gas counts, 10 * 3 = 30), the extra workers are used for scouting (if no observers are build yet). Humanik is not entirely a script AI just like the others, it only expands after numerous conditions are met, a set of conditions has been coded by us, as you can see in the video, Strategy V0.31 does not saturate its amount of worker in a base like Humanik does, 2 bases of 30 workers would be equivalent to 1 + the 400 mineral extra to build on your army.

Also, Humanik mass its army base on the condition evaluated, in the video, it knows that the amount of army from its opponent diminishes after the "great" clash, hence it would be best that it mass its army (instead of expanding) to finish the game. Of course, the decision of massing an army is still arbitrary given various decisions that can be taken during the gameplay as programmed.
Title: Re: Humanik V1.0.0
Post by: Artanis186 on April 12, 2010, 11:21:05 PM
FYI, you can click and hold a units portrait to lock the camera on it. Now back to watching the video. :)

EDIT: Most of my reply is on the second part of the video itself.

All I have to add beyond that is, one thing I noticed, the Sentries seemed to waste Gaurdian Shield a bit.

Next round, I request playing against someone else besides Zerg.
Title: Re: Humanik V1.0.0
Post by: emylgoth on April 13, 2010, 05:10:23 AM
No one finding this ridiculous? Is only talking for 4 days now. And your video comments are pretty childish and what is funny is that you almost always wrong type your own AI name "Humanik" but "Strategy" not. Why you're not recording your voice when you're making those videos? Maybe, in that way, you will inspire more reliability to all viewers (or not? :P ). If you want to have a real support from people here, you should post your first release with at least one race (protoss, I guess) and if it will be liked, people will search for your next releases and comment about it. My advice: don't push to much with theoretical explanations before you have something out.

P.S.
And... when you're recording, please set the game speed to fastest from the beginning...
Title: Re: Humanik V1.0.0
Post by: klaretos on April 13, 2010, 07:00:42 AM
You are stupid emylgoth. You are implying that Humanik bot is not real? LOL! I am sure that when it comes out it will be the best non cheating bot around for a long time. The only one that will be comparable will be starcrack 8 and we don't even know when it will be ready. Humanik will be out very soon, we saw it in action.

One question AKA, you said that Protoss is the race to play against. How difficult Terran and Zerg are at the current state?
Title: Re: Humanik V1.0.0
Post by: emylgoth on April 13, 2010, 07:10:22 AM
Quote from: klaretos on April 13, 2010, 07:00:42 AM
You are stupid emylgoth. You are implying that Humanik bot is not real? LOL!

I said that?... Holly molly, I can't remember and I guess I need to work more harder on my English... Sorry if I upset someone.
All I tried to say is: release a first version of AI and then discuss it. Don't make such a long propaganda before people know it.
But... do your job, please, with Normal speed, since no one care about that.
Title: Re: Humanik V1.0.0
Post by: itsarabbit on April 13, 2010, 08:42:15 AM
Quote from: AlsoKnownAs on April 12, 2010, 01:44:29 PM
itsarabbit, thanks for commenting :) .First of all, to correct some minor assumptions from you, a zealot is not able to clear 4 zerglings by itself + when there's 2 roaches firing at it, that would be more of an issue (And how would you know that the roaches ain't micro manage to avoid your focus fire? That would be a waste of time trying to shoot it while at the meantime having your zealot getting killed). Anyhow, the simulation of such a situation is not done by me but by my other team members and I'm only giving you an easy example compared to a more complex one.
AFAIK, if you would shoot at the roaches, 2 or 3 lings would at most be able to survive after the zealot would've gotten killed, and its easier to kill them at first, and if they are avoiding, they wouldn't be able to fire at the zealot.
and I said that the zealot would've almost clear 4 lings, only 1 would survive.
Anyways, there is no reason for them not to focusfire the immortal anyways, making this conversation useless.
Title: Re: Humanik V1.0.0
Post by: AlsoKnownAs on April 13, 2010, 09:25:59 AM
emylgoth,

QuoteNo one finding this ridiculous? Is only talking for 4 days now. And  your video comments are pretty childish and what is funny is that you  almost always wrong type your own AI name "Humanik" but "Strategy" not.  Why you're not recording your voice when you're making those videos?  Maybe, in that way, you will inspire more reliability to all viewers  (or not? (http://darkblizz.org/Forum2/../../../Smileys/DarkB/tongue.gif)  ). If you want to have a real support from people here, you should post  your first release with at least one race (protoss, I guess) and if it  will be liked, people will search for your next releases and comment  about it. My advice: don't push to much with theoretical explanations  before you have something out.

P.S.
And... when you're recording, please set the game speed to fastest from the beginning...

It's not my decision whether to release or not, I'm not the project leader, so get real. If you don't believe that it exist, go make one yourself which can possibly beat even the simplest AI out there and play with it yourself. If you don't like my comments, go to some other thread and post there. Plus, I'm not good at commenting with my voice, not everyone is born to be a good commentator. And how can you be sure that they are theoretical? Presuming that you're not one of the SC2 programmers, so don't assume something just because you "think so". Childish you say eh? I bet you can't even make one decent video, go get a life "kiddo", we are making this for free and not paid, so send your negative comments somewhere else. And about the speed of the video, I don't see anyone else complaining, so what's your problem?

itsarabbit,

As said in my previous post, the decision of having to prioritize (focus fire) the roaches or not is not under my jurisdiction, it is in progress (simulations and other set-ups), thanks for your comment anyways  :) .

P.S. I'm merely posting these videos so that you guys are having updates on our progress (similar to a developer's diary), cheers :cheers: . Also, we are programming at our own speed, no deadline, if you can't wait for the release, there's always other AIs to play around, if you don't bother whether it's going to be released, then don't post, simple as that.
Title: Re: Humanik V1.0.0
Post by: gzxaaa on April 13, 2010, 10:00:31 AM
To the author of Humanik AI:

Please test your AI against Strategy AI Protoss & Terran 0.31 (NOT 0.13!). The zerg strategy AI is much weaker than protoss and terran (almost 100% lose if you do ZVP or ZVT). Protoss is strongest for Strategy AI 0.31.

Strategy is probably still the best at Macro (esp economy). Your AI expands too late, and 30 workers per base has almost no better income than 25 workers per base used in Strategy AI.
Title: Re: Humanik V1.0.0
Post by: itsarabbit on April 13, 2010, 11:24:00 AM
Quote from: gzxaaa on April 13, 2010, 10:00:31 AM
30 workers per base has almost no better income than 25 workers per base used in Strategy AI.
Actually(Now I did not watch the video), 30 workers per base is ideal. 3 workers per mineral patch and vespen geyser, though it is better to split up your workers between expansions by sending atleast 8 as soon as you get one.
Title: Re: Humanik V1.0.0
Post by: Chriamon on April 13, 2010, 02:20:01 PM
Quote from: itsarabbit on April 13, 2010, 11:24:00 AM
Quote from: gzxaaa on April 13, 2010, 10:00:31 AM
30 workers per base has almost no better income than 25 workers per base used in Strategy AI.
Actually(Now I did not watch the video), 30 workers per base is ideal. 3 workers per mineral patch and vespen geyser, though it is better to split up your workers between expansions by sending atleast 8 as soon as you get one.
Actually, You are kind of wrong. Passed 16(2 per mineral patch), there is hardly any benefit to increasing workers, and past 24 (3 per patch) there is absolutely 0 benefit to increading. At 16 workers, you get something like 17 mins per second, and at 24, its like 18 or 19 mins/sec. Theres a whole thread about it on TL. The reason you keep building past 16, is if you are planning on making an expansion, so that when the expo is done, you have those 8 workers to send. (Note, you will have +3 more workers per gas you are using, which is why a lot of times there are ~22 workers per base). 30 per base is the max benefit, but more like 22 is ideal.

Also, keep posting AKA, it is interesting to know your progress, although, like people have said, it would be nice to see more examples of it in action.

And, about whoever was talking about strategy .31 zerg AI, it is not bad, it only loses to the protoss and terran start AI because the terran and protoss both go for all-in strats. They are both extremely simple to beat if you hold off their initial attack. If the strat .31 zerg is not quickly rushed (relatively quickly), it can build up a sizable force and out macro the opponent quite easily.
Title: Re: Humanik V1.0.0
Post by: Hadrian on April 14, 2010, 06:30:54 AM
As far as workers are concerned, the ideal number is 22-24.

As a general rule, you build 2 workers for each crystal and 2-3 (based on distance) for every vespin gysir.
Any more will just clutter your ressource field and drain ressources, and as a Terran, you should always have 1-2 workers less so that there is space for your mules.

Every worker needs time to be build and costs 50 minerals. If you produce for example 35 instead of 21 workers (terran base, 1 vespin gysir only needs 2 for optimum), you have wasted 14x50=700 minerals for little to no benefit.
Yes, someday you might need them in your next expansion, but until then, those minerals would have been useful to upgrade your troops, or instead, build 14 marines, or 28 zerglings, or 5 marauders, or a few supply depots and bunkers, etc.
Oh, and - every worker needs supply. This in time forces you to buy (waste more minerals) on supply buildings/units you otherwise would not have to. And since there is a unit maximum, it's a good idea to keep the workers balanced and to generally have as few as you need and nothing above neccessary.

The idea is not to put as many workers as possible for a bit more efficiancy into your base, but to give every single worker a purpose for existance and to utilize every crystal you have in order to push an early techno+unit advantage. That is why it's not a good idea two build past 22/24. It will take minutes for those workers to actually get the crystals back that you used to build them.
Thus, why not leave them be and use the ressources instead for much better purposes?
Title: Re: Humanik V1.0.0
Post by: B_w_S on April 14, 2010, 11:33:08 AM
Quote from: Hadrian on April 14, 2010, 06:30:54 AM
As far as workers are concerned, the ideal number is 22-24.

As a general rule, you build 2 workers for each crystal and 2-3 (based on distance) for every vespin gysir.
Any more will just clutter your ressource field and drain ressources, and as a Terran, you should always have 1-2 workers less so that there is space for your mules.

Mostly right. . . . .

Pro tip: Mules don't hog any space from scvs they can both mine the same patch at the same time.

Therefore 22 (16 on minerals + 6 on vespene) is the most efficient amount for mining unless you plan on Maynarding any time soon.
Title: Re: Humanik V1.0.0
Post by: AlsoKnownAs on April 16, 2010, 07:50:34 AM
A message from one of our project organizers;

QuoteDamn, the engine is way too medieval!

Facts:

QuoteThe engine provided by SC2 Beta for AI integration is limited  and not flexible (yet). (Example: There is no function provided to us that  enables us to do a custom placement of units, especially buildings  based on the desired points) And since its a script, there's nothing much that we can do about it.

It is crucial for us to know that advanced players will not just micro manage its army and economy but also take advantage of the terrain provided. The engine that is implemented within SC2 Beta has not emphasized terrain in mind. (The path blocking that you watch mostly in replays are not implementable because there is no function in the current engine which enables us to place buildings at our own discretion but instead based on pre-defined build flags) - and these predefined functions are a pain in the arse (e.g. it seems like for each pylon, the maximum building that it can accommodate is between 14 to 15, based on the original SC2 programmers)

Other strategies that you watch in replays are implementable except the ones that utilizes on the placement of buildings (Path blocking, dummy, seperation of production facilities, bunker rush, photon cannon rush, and etc.).

The above is one of the minor drawbacks that we are encountering  :( , the current AI will never able to surpass a human if such limitation exist. Dispite so, we are working on implementing other strategies first and put those that are not implementable aside and have them coded once the engine improves.
Title: Re: Humanik V1.0.0
Post by: whoamI on April 16, 2010, 09:52:01 AM
are you sure about buildings placement? if you watch strategy AI terran replays you will find out that the AI is blocking command center with buildings and uses supply depots as gates.. something that is pretty smart..
Title: Re: Humanik V1.0.0
Post by: AlsoKnownAs on April 16, 2010, 10:43:25 AM
whoamI, good observation there  ;) , however that is one of the build flags which specify the builders to build surrounding the main base or resources (technically, c_nearResource, c_nearChokePoint or some other flag; my point is, it still rely on the flags given/predefined), if you do observe more, you will realize that it builds in the same pattern, no where near the slope/ramp.
Title: Re: Humanik V1.0.0
Post by: SuXue on April 16, 2010, 11:10:02 AM
Quote from: AlsoKnownAs on April 16, 2010, 10:43:25 AM
whoamI, good observation there  ;) , however that is one of the build flags which specify the builders to build surrounding the main base or resources (technically, c_nearResource, c_nearChokePoint or some other flag; my point is, it still rely on the flags given/predefined), if you do observe more, you will realize that it builds in the same pattern, no where near the slope/ramp.

In principle, one can scan the tiles (yes, i remember this is possible), then create an order for the probe to execute it.
Title: Re: Humanik V1.0.0
Post by: whoamI on April 16, 2010, 11:52:40 AM
So, one can use 'c_nearResource' to create a box around the comm center-recource line, can't he do the same with 'c_nearChokePoint'? I don't understand this..

suxue if someone can scan tiles can't he order the probe to place buildings in certain tiles?
Title: Re: Humanik V1.0.0
Post by: Chriamon on April 16, 2010, 01:07:57 PM
Quote from: whoamI on April 16, 2010, 11:52:40 AM
So, one can use 'c_nearResource' to create a box around the comm center-recource line, can't he do the same with 'c_nearChokePoint'? I don't understand this..

suxue if someone can scan tiles can't he order the probe to place buildings in certain tiles?

The build flags "c_nearResource" and "c_nearChokePoint" are predefined, and will not work with "tile scanning." I think what SuXue is saying is that you can define a point which is where you want the building to build, and the terrain is pathable, and other such conditions (would be incredibly complicated to do so, and it probably wouldn't even work on every map in the same way,) and then build the building at the defined point.
Title: Re: Humanik V1.0.0
Post by: AlsoKnownAs on April 16, 2010, 01:22:58 PM
QuoteIn principle, one can scan the tiles (yes, i remember this is possible), then create an order for the probe to execute it.

True that we can scan points and tiles to validate whether buildings can be placed through one the function's test, and if such order (e.g. order = build a building at some specific point, or etc.) can be created and executed, it would be invaluable for us AI developers.


Humanik V1.0.1 Update:

1. Sentry will cast Guardian Shield correctly and will not waste them like in the previous video posted.
2. Sentry will cast Force Field to block narrow paths, preventing a larger force of ground enemies from attacking you; hence buying time to mass your own army.
3. Stalker will blink backward to prevent damage during combat and forward when enemies are retreating.
4. Humanik will be released by this month or so, patience  :cheers: .
Title: Re: Humanik V1.0.0
Post by: qwertyq on April 17, 2010, 02:38:21 AM
Why have you posted this topic here? This is AI scripts 'Got a new AI you just made? Found a new AI not on here? Share with the rest of us here!' Which implies you have a release. It'd be better if this topic was in AI development. Just sayin'
Title: Re: Humanik V1.0.0
Post by: AlsoKnownAs on April 17, 2010, 11:38:49 AM
QuoteWhy have you posted this topic here? This is AI scripts 'Got a new AI  you just made? Found a new AI not on here? Share with the rest of us  here!' Which implies you have a release. It'd be better if this topic  was in AI development. Just sayin'

Haha, you're right pal  :thumbsup: . The purpose of me creating this post is to keep you guys updated and when the time is correct, our team would eventually release it under this thread.

Some updates:
http://darkblizz.org/Forum2/ai-development/humanik-(ai)-updates-features-suggestions/ (http://darkblizz.org/Forum2/ai-development/humanik-(ai)-updates-features-suggestions/)
Title: Re: Humanik V1.0.0
Post by: darka on May 11, 2010, 02:27:02 PM
Is this project forsaken?