In this post, you can suggest some opening for the Generals to use.
Each Opening should have 2 or 3 followup depend on the situation:
_ For example :
Opening Reaper Rush ( vs Protoss )
* 8 - Barracks
* 8 - Refinery
* 8 - 3SCV
* 10 - Depot
* 11 - Tech Lab
* 11 - Reaper
Folow up 1 ( when enemy rush ( 2 gate ) )
...
Folow up 2( when enemy Cybernectice core and 1 stalker )
...
Folow up 3 ( when enemy have cannon )
...
okay well, here's mine.
Standard protoss against whichever
9 pylon
12 gate
12/13 gas
15 cybernetics
17 robotics (depends, since you might wanna build a zealot to block your choke depending on what your scout found)
from there, I get an observer out and if I see they're turtling then I
--expand
--build about 3 more gateways
--robo bay for collosus
--more gateways
if not then i forgo expanding. From there, I just choose between collossus or immortals, a forge somewhere in there and a whole lot of stalkers. a couple of obs too since invi banshees have been popular lately >_<
I think that if ur not planing to rush, then u should be continuously produce workers to get ur eco up preparing for mid game.
As terran, i like to build 3 rax - producing marauders and marines then transition to medicvacs and tanks. obviously if u scout and see e.g. ur opp going for air then tech to aa units. I'd like to think that if my opp is teching straight to air, his not gona have aa great deal of army in the early stage, thus i tend to push/ harass b4 he gets those air units.
10 Supply Depot
12 Barracks
14 Supply Depot
15 Refinery
16 Scout
17 Marine
17 Orbital Command
17 Tech Lab (First Barracks)
17 Supply Depot
18 2nd Barracks
18 Marauder
20 3rd Barracks
20 Supply Depot
24 Reactor on 2nd Barracks
26 Supply Depot
( if anyone has a better strategy or build to mine pls comment. cheers ) :cheers:
Actually, I was like what eskimo said there as I recently discovered that for myself. A lot of times, people tend to just wait to get till they're like 100 supply before they move out but just because you don't have that 100 supply army yet, doesn't mean you should sniff around with it because chances are, your opponent is probably doing the same thing or teching up. If he's doing the same thing then I suggest you expand but if he's teching up then you should definitely push as even if you only have a handful of marines, they're still scary when your opponent only has buildings xD
In the end though, it's really all about game sense, knowing when to push out or stay on defensive ;) And scouting helps too! Also, since you're terran, it's worth noting that building a barracks to fly over your opponents base is way cheaper than using a scan since a mule is worth 300 minerals while a barracks is only 150 besides, terran buildings fly faster in sc2 so.. yeah :D
I have added more opening.
Wait until new release of GreenTea to fight more strategy.
Could be named DarkTea now :D
Eskimo, i think scout should be out when first barrac is done. 16 scout is realy late, its not good, because you dont know what opponent doing. Orbital command MUST build when barracs is done, because Orbital give you 270 minerals with Mule. 17 marine...maybe 13 or 14?? IMO it could be better.
Sory for my english :)
Cause of A.I only make peons as 38 (3 * 8 minerals (peons saturation) 2* 3gas + 8* 1minerals for expand) making orbital don't improve anything at the beggining... (make orbital when finish peons).
Build.order can't be exactly as a human build order cause A.I will be build more fast than a human (more ressource at same time because peon on 1mineral at start)
Plz post combo unit by each race.
Played many PvT on latest version of AI. Main bug - terran NEVER go to expansion.
1. Mech terran is very, very weak. Mass hellion with 2-3 tanks is worst mix. IMO mass maraduer+tanks+few hellion and thor could be much better. If opponets go to air add Vikings.
2. Mass and fast banshes also weak because ground army is virtually absent. 10 hellion and 8-10 marine? I can beat this terran before being built first banshe. To counter banshes i build stalkers, but marine+hellions very weak agains stalkers. Main bug in this commander - AI build mass starports instead army. Why did he builds 6-8 Starport if no resources to build the army?
3. Marauder + Tank. More tanks! And i think 2-3 thors or 4-6 banshes in this mix would looking good.
In all games of top terran player what i see, base ground unit of terran army is marauder. Its a great and powerful unit, he looks great in all of army mix. MM balls strategy base on marauder, not marine. IMO 3 marader on 2 marine is better ratio on MM balls strategy. Maraduers must builds from 2 rax with techlab and marine from one rax with reator in early game.
This post is just my opinion, but I think that my ideas are correct and I hope that they will help to improve the Ai.
Thx for feedback.
This is our first version (can be improve).
Can you test protoss A.I to give us other feedback. (Terran will be improve soon).
About Marauders, I make ratio 2 marines per 1 marauder. You thought the opposite?
Ratio 2 marauders per 1 marine or 1 marader per 1 marine much better than 2 marines per 1 marauder ratio against ground forces. But if opponents go to air with ground army, 2 marines per 1 marauder is better. Maraders with stimpack can kill everything! :)
When i start playing to SC2 I thought about maraders:marine ratio like you. But when i start see VODs i understood what base unit of terran "biological" army must be marader. In ground by ground marader very strong and powerfull, really hard for protoss beat MM balls based on maraeders without Colossus or PsiStorm or mass viodrays. Its also important to understand what marauder good DamageDiller and "tank". When all enemy fire concentrate on marauders, marine can do much more than without much number of marauders. Also marauders much strong against PsiStorm than marine. 1-2 psistorm can kill all marine army with 45(55)hp but cant kill marauders with 125hp. I hope you understood what i mean :)
My friend played few TvP and says what protoss Ai is pretty good. I give feedback when played with protoss AI by myself in the next couple of days.
I have made Thor EMP build too. (not ready yet)
Can you give us more idea of combo? (vs different race)!!!
@Shadow, thx for your explicit feedback, if everybody can copy you, it will be great.
More idea about Zerg PLZ. (I will try to make some)
Yes. During one - two days i`ll give you feedback about protoss Ai and idea of army mix for terran first. Also i try find VODs on YouTube where shows B.O. and strateges and right use of army.
Post some link of VOD for example or some replay (without A.I plz)
IF i find interesting VODs i post link. If not i write unit mix and B.O.
MMBalls basic opener from Husky
Terran Tutorial - Basic Opener - StarCraft 2 (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WQe6UqvCOT4#ws)
MMballs
[05.04] imba.Adolf[RA](T) vs Mana(P) part 1/3 (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TwFAOnD9Mro#)
Tank+marine vs Marauder
[10.04] imba.Adolf[RA](T) vs Druzdil(T) part 1/3 (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=S3hGgSey5X8#)
Tanks+Marauders+Vikings
[15.05] imba.Adolf[RA](T) vs Failo(T) part 1/4 (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BhSjuHM1Vdk#ws)
Two mech game.
http://white-ra.com/ru/video/viewvideo/32/vods/glhfit-invitational-white-rap-vs-jinrot-game-1 (http://white-ra.com/ru/video/viewvideo/32/vods/glhfit-invitational-white-rap-vs-jinrot-game-1)
http://white-ra.com/ru/video/viewvideo/36/vods/aesl-white-ra-p-vs-makat-game-1 (http://white-ra.com/ru/video/viewvideo/36/vods/aesl-white-ra-p-vs-makat-game-1)
MMballs + Banshes
[HD] Starcraft 2 - Fayth vs IdrA PT1 (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YPnd2TWPcBQ#)
Some mix you can see in VOD. There are Russian commentary in some vods :) Also i write short overview about mix in here, more inforamation in VODs.
1. MM balls - basic unit maraduer and marine on 1:1 or 2:1 ratio. In midgame add 2-3 ghost for EMP (only against protoss) and medivacs.
2. In mech strategy basic unit is siege tank. Can mixed with marine or marauder and sometimes hellions. In midgame combo tank+marine\marauders can mixed by thors, ghost or some air.
3. Air strategy. Its banshes or vikings. IMO better way to air it MMballs midgame. In this way, we have strong ground army.
IMO its basic strategys for terran and AI must played it on a perfect level :)
P.S. some videos are split on a parts. To see next part click on video and find next part on YouTube in right bar with videos.
Any Idea of combo or mix units with Zerg?
Zergling + Muta
Roach + Hydra
what else?
zerling+baneling
zerling+roach
in midgame roach+ultralisk with mass hydra.
zerling+banelings+ultralisk with hydra and infestors (if he can use abilities).
IMO looking good next BO.
1. One base mass roach or zerling presure -> expand -> hydra or muta. IMO hydra better in battle, but muta perfect harassment unit.
2. 13 pool, 14 hatcery on expand, zerlings -> mass hydra or muta.
I`m hate play by zerg :) Because i cant tell more about zerg mix. Zerg players plz help! :)
Want some mix with Vinkings too?
I am Terran & Protoss user. I have played some game with Zerg but I don't know strategy and over, just some tactics.
Have you tried Protoss?
What is IMO? I am not familiar with abbrevation. :p
IMO=in my opinion :)
For zerg find on youtube games by Idra and Dimaga. Its a very strong zerg player.
Now vikings very important in TvT, siege tank+airmode viking+some marauders or marine.
Agains zerg viking airmode are powerful to, best overlords hunter in game.
Against protoss vikings strong against voidrays, if protoss go to air, terran must have vikings. But in ground mode viking weak and some players consider it useless. I think harassment by vikings is interesting tactic.
Later i`ll write my army mix by protoss, they my favorite race :)
All version inclued Air counter. I told about Viking as unit parts not as counter unit.
When you start Air, A.I will counter with 2* your AirArmy. (ex: If you got 1 Void-Ray, make 2 Vikings)
I have tried 2marauder per 1 marine. It's not good, not enought marine. I make ratio: 2marauder/2marine.
I have inclued your feedback in mix. I just tried it yesterday. I never win :D
Added 2 Turbo reaper (just stop repear when armored ready):
1 make banshee rush and mix marauder/marine+medivac
2 make tank rush and mix marauder/marine/thor+medivac. (Very hard I never win both)
ptanhkhoa works on GreenTea Core included lot of improve and others... :D
I'll let him to explain and release it.
before patch 10, in GreenTea 0.3 or 0.4 version, ptanhkhoa use very strong tank rush. Fast tank with mass marine. All gas spent in 2-3 tank with siege mode, marine non-stop build from 2-3 barracks. When siege mode and 2-3 tanks ready he also has ~15-20 marine and go to attack. This attack was usually the last, i am very long time could not beat his army. Try to add this mix, i think it would be great.
In midgame can add to mix 2-3 ghosts for EMP, marauders if opponet build armored unit, hellion if opponet build light unit, some banshes or thor.
About vikings. Try use mass marine with mass groundmode vikings. But im not sure what that good mix. Unfortunately, in groundmode viking are slow and has`t powerfull attack. Also try viking harrasment. Build 4-6 vikings, land they on minerals to kill probe or buildings.
My unit building is different than others... I make units from variable not as determined number....
I make units from variable determined buildings units or counter. (that is really better than other, hardest is unknowing ratio or tring to find it ).
New version with your feedback and protoss cleaning:
http://www.mediafire.com/?ttzzdkgngwn5 (http://www.mediafire.com/?ttzzdkgngwn5)
Inclued lastest version from GreenTea Core. (core always under development)
Good news incoming, Pk will release it in few moment as it's finish.
Thx a lot of my Pk.
Plz write what strategys are used in latest version?
im played few PvP and TvP. Protoss are looking good. But unfortunately, i can tell only about DarkTemlars, Colossus and immortal rush.
DarkTemplars not hard for me, because when i see TwilightConcul i build fast observer. Ai can build proxy Dark Shrine? In could be awesome!
About colossus and immortals. Nice start! Presure from 3 gate in early game then he build robotics. Its good. BUT! In midgame he has 6-9 warpgates and one robotics. Not good. IMO 3 gate in start, then robotics, then 1-2 gate and additional robotics could be much better.
Just lastest build with terran expand fixed.
There is some Zerg openings too (6 for the moment).
I just wanna your feedback for making some changes. (I will release stable build with details strategys later)
http://www.mediafire.com/?ezn2yqnuj1j (http://www.mediafire.com/?ezn2yqnuj1j)
now I can`t play so often as i would like. Maybe 2-3 games per day.
Hard to me give you right feedback if i dont know what you changed and what strategys AI can use. Plz write me in personal message what changes you do, this greatly helps me in writing the feedback.
Feedback protoss now, if you have time zerg. I have already update terran.
Lastest build have different name (protoss) which could help you to feedback.
Just infos (incoming can change):
Protoss:
Immortal Rush
3 Warpgate
One Base Colossus
1 WarpGate Stargate Mass Zealot + Carrier
2 Warpgate Stargate Counter + Carrier
Dark-Templar Fast Expand
3 Warpgate Counter + Mass Immortal
One Base Colossus High Templars + Archon
Dark-Templar Fast Expand Counter + Dark Templars + Archon
Terran:
3 Barracks switch Mech play
1 Rax Marauder + Tank
Siege Expand + Mech Play
Zatic Build (M&M Balls on Marauder)
Turbo Reaper + Tank Rush
Turbo Reaper + Banshee Rush
Thor EMP Fast Expand
Siege Expand + Marauder
Mass Marine + Fast Battlecruiser (M&M Balls on Marine)
Zerg:
15 Hatch (Roach + Hydra)
15 Hatch (Zergling + Mutas)
Roach Pressure (Roach + Hydra)
Base Roach (Roach + Hydra)
14 Gas Speed (Zergling + Mutas)
8 pool (Zergling + Mutas)
Baneling Rush (Zergling + Baneling + Hydra)
After feedback, Zerg mix will be better. (Shadow will be our official beta tester) :D
Cheers.
The Commander version in Green Tea AI 0.47 ( not inculed Darka commader )
Son : High Templar Nightmare : => going to High Templar as soon as possible
Viet: Dark Templar => You will see he will send Dark Templar to attack your worker if you don't have any detect yet.
Khanh : Fast Collossi => Yes, a lot of Collossi, but maybe it only have one, the trick is he using sentry to multiple them to scared you :P
Hai : Void Ray + Carrier => he maybe the only commander that use total air.
Duy: Immortal + HighTemplar, while the immortal is tend to mineral cost, the High Templar tend to gas cost so this mix is good, Immortal will focus on larger unit like Thor, Collosus, Ultralisk, while High Templar using to kill group of enemy ( Marine, Zergling, ... etc )
Quyen : A complete Robotic user, Collosus and Immortal
Nguyem : Immortal and Carrier, she trying to be in between ground and air unit.
Terran:
Black Reaper: the same at the previous version but build reaper a little faster, I try the 8 barracks but it complete fail, not enough defend. Have making it attack the drone but it won't move after that. So let it default by bombing building only.
White Banshee: the only different to previous version is having cloak enough.
Grey Tanker : Faster Tanks, spend all his gas early on tank research, you will see a couple about 3 - 4 tanks at beginning.
Yellow Battle Cruiser : try this, but it lack of strength because he must have a huge amount of resources, not to mention the slow build time, but i still add to making fun anyway.
Red Thor : This commander have a favour of Thor Units, and having Strike Cannon "Researched" too.
_ The Protoss commander have opening build depend on the opponent. Try using Zergling rush, you will see they build forge first, but when you expand fast, expect 3 gate from them.
_ The Terran Commander using the same opening. having Command Center at the 15, that when the barracks finish. They easily beating by rush, because not yet walling, they will try to block out but usually block by the 4 depot above and one more bunker ( still very silly). Ofcourse when fighting Protoss, they will build Ghost for sure.
@ Shadow, for you to test easier:
AISetDifficulty(player, c_diffLimitAPM, true); To make the AI scout, you will find in the Trigger folder 3 file Zerg.galaxy (http://zerg.galaxy/), Terran.galaxy (http://terran.galaxy/), Protoss.galaxy (http://protoss.galaxy/), find the line
AISetFlag(player, e_flagsScouting, false);
Set it to true
AISetFlag(player, e_flagsScouting, true);
In these file you can modify to play with specific General too, for example:
if ( rnd == 1) // Black Reaper
{ AISetMainState(player, e_mainState_OpenGnd0, e_mainSubState_Unset); }
else if ( rnd == 2) // Grey Tanker
{ AISetMainState(player, e_mainState_OpenGnd1, e_mainSubState_Unset); }
else if ( rnd == 3) // White Banshee
{ AISetMainState(player, e_mainState_OpenGnd2, e_mainSubState_Unset); }
you can modified all to OpenGrn0 to play with Black Reaper only
if ( rnd == 1) // Black Reaper
{ AISetMainState(player, e_mainState_OpenGnd0, e_mainSubState_Unset); }
else if ( rnd == 2) // Grey Tanker
{ AISetMainState(player, e_mainState_OpenGnd0, e_mainSubState_Unset); }
else if ( rnd == 3) // White Banshee
{ AISetMainState(player, e_mainState_OpenGnd0, e_mainSubState_Unset); }
@ ptanhkhoa
Commander like Son, Duy, Nguyem can use fast expand first? If not it will be very weak, because for they army required a lot of resourse, one base cant provide enought resourse for they mix.
What about MMballs for terran?
@darka
i played some game, maybe 10.
1. "One Base Colossus" never build colossus, but having robobay :) expand action strangely, he can expand on all map and can never exp.
2. "WarpGate Stargate Mass Zealot + Carrier" hmm, i dont know. Very easy to beat by stalkers and sentry. Blocking zeals by sentry, kill carrier by stalkers. IMO this strategys must be deleted, not good idea build carriers from one base and also two base. Carriers are strong when they are 5-6, better 7-9. You must have 3-4 base first for build enought carriers.
3. All commander build robotics but never build unit from it. I never see immortals and colossus.
In all time Ai use zeals+sentry+stalkers by ground and dark temlars if it Dark-Templar Fast Expand. But 3 warpgate and all counter commander are pretty good.
Thx for feedback. I'll fix them. (Thor is the same way and now, it's build it, on my last M&M balls based on marine, A.I build banshee + battlecruiser)
If you wanna select a strategy in particular like PK just comment like this:
Quote
//--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
// Zerg Init
//--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
static void ZergInit (int player) {
int state;
int rnd = RandomInt(1, 5);
int d = AIPathingCostMap(PlayerStartLocation(player),PlayerStartLocation(GTEnemyID(player)));
InitCounters(player);
by
Quote
//--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
// Zerg Init
//--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
static void ZergInit (int player) {
int state;
//int rnd = RandomInt(1, 5);
int rnd = 13; //or number to strategy you wish test
int d = AIPathingCostMap(PlayerStartLocation(player),PlayerStartLocation(GTEnemyID(player)));
InitCounters(player);
Any idea of strategy to replace zealot + carrier
I have made some openings of zerg, can you test it?
I knew that is same mix of units (some commentarys + idea of mix can be appreciate)
ptanhkhoa rules!!
Cheers.
darka you zerg is worst. Major problem in larva. In early game zerg prefer build drones. When i have 3-5 zealots he have 2 zerlings and queen.
yeah, noticed.
Played against new 0.47 version. Awesome! Very nice expansion action, army mix and rebuild strategy to counter my action. For example, he very fast build counter for my units. I build immortals for counter his colossus and after that he add voidrays in army to counter my immortals.
Nice, very nice job! Cheers to ptanhkhoa :)
Actually, I did't even think of that :P, maybe the Voidray being part of the army mix.
So it also a good idea to switch strategy and stop producing something and focus on other thing depend on enemy army.
hm. When i beat him he say his name - Full Robotics User. But he has some voidrays in stalkers+immortals+colossus army and 3 starports on mainbase ))
Use commanders is a good a Idea only for the begin (openings, harassment).
But i think that AI need to change strategy in real time... Similar like AMAI in WC3, depends of the enemy forces.
Green Tea AI the best AI .. good job.
Sorry for my bad english.
I can do that but another problem, for example, when the Ai is folowing an air build and don't build any Robotic Facility yet, when it face enemy force that require Robotic Facility, it has to build this first before produce counter unit => Very slow to counter. And maybe the opponent will change strategy again and AI force to build another building ? If I enough all build building, the computer don't have enough resources to build it first time.
So can you give me an advice to this :)
considering that the AI have map hack ( if not need scout ).
Like a real game. need to harass expansions, scvs, probes, etc.with this we win time to make a counter enemy units, or forcing the enemy to change her current build.
If make the AI to harass, this can expand more fast and win in Macro (more resources).
.. A example
I played vs Zerg AI and i was forced to protect my base with cannons, because every time that i move my forces to attack, zerg harrass me with Mutalisk. i lose time protecting mi base. In this time i think the the AI expand and win me beacuse got more units.
I think that a game is based on harassment...
I hope letting me understand.
excuse my bad english... I speak Spanish
All game are based on hassment.... it's Starcraft man.
Expand during wave attack, expand when have enought units, expand when harrass, I love this game!
Maybe you mind a easiest version? We are working on this, making easy/normal/hard/insane. (not ready yet)
ptanhkoa only works on Harass and Rush strategy: GreenTea.
I work on tech strategy: DarkTea. (I will release next version for this week-end)
We will release complete version with both version when been stable.
So just keep an eye on forum to grab lastest build until stable version release.
ptanhkoa have go out this week and I am working during the day, I can only work by night (I have only 2 - 3 hours for sleep).
So be patient, well is incoming !!! :D
Quote from: darka on June 10, 2010, 01:59:51 PM
Maybe you mind a easiest version? We are working on this, making easy/normal/hard/insane. (not ready yet)
good good, make insane AI version :thumbsup:
i wanna test it when you complete it :jig:
@rempty
loose time protecting base? multitasking ftw .... and with protoss you can warp stalkers to defend and kill that annoying mutas...
PD: ya era hora de encontrar a alguien que hablara español... de donde eres?
wait my friend, good thing incoming.