DarkBlizz

Quote from: DFA on March 05, 2010, 08:55:44 AM
the AI in 5.5 is stupid because of the twitchy retreats.

like for example, i can wipe out an entire zerg force using 1 marauder kiting them

Not if they have Roaches, you can't.


See what I did there? 

My Qs seem to have gotten lost in the convo, so here they are again:


1) Is it conceivable that at some point in time the AI will be able to push with Bunkers, offensively?
2) Can the AI now use warp-in, and is it (potentially) possible to program proxy pylon+warp-in builds?


Cause those'd be fun. 

Quote from: Artanis186 on March 04, 2010, 02:21:44 AM

Quote from: p.W on March 04, 2010, 02:07:06 AM

Quote from: Artanis186I MIGHT be exploting. I'm not sure. I build a gateway/forge wall at my ramp with 1 square open so my units can go in and out. The enemy does the back and forth thing there, so I may be exploiting. Any clarification if I am?[/size][/font]

If by virtue of this "trick" you keep the AI from getting inside your base, then yeah. Note again I'm not making any judgements at all, and my use of the word 'exploit' seems to be carrying a negative connotation I didn't intend. It's completely natural to keep doing whatever's working.

I knew what you intended, I took no offense to it. I'm just curious if the exploiting is the ONLY reason I'm winning.



Here's my usual base entrance. There's also usually a few zealots and maybe some stalkers there too. My units can fit through that bottom slot below the gateway

Very easy to check. Play a game and don't do it.


I know I have a lot of trouble holding off the first Zerg rush if I don't set up a wall. I can do it, but have never fully recovered from that and gone on to beat the AI.

Quote from: orbb24 on March 04, 2010, 01:58:17 AM
I am very excited. Can't wait to play against this AI. O and btw, I don't exploit the AI. It is still easy. Don't start calling out people that are good as only being able to beat the AI through exploits. Some of us are just good.

Did you even read what I said? The 'not "on purpose"' bit? The AI cannot deal with certain parts of the game as well as other parts. When it comes to dealing with harassment, expansion denial, and kiting, the AI is plain stupid. It's not a competent player's fault for taking advantage of those things, because by the standard of regular games they're not taking advantage of anything, they're just playing the game the way it's meant to be played.


Tell me, when you play T vs P/Z AI, do you submerge your depots all the time and let the enemy run into your base? Or do you keep a couple of Marines standing nearby to get free shots off as the enemy closes and retreats? Just wondering.

QuoteI MIGHT be exploting. I'm not sure. I build a gateway/forge wall at my ramp with 1 square open so my units can go in and out. The enemy does the back and forth thing there, so I may be exploiting. Any clarification if I am?

If by virtue of this "trick" you keep the AI from getting inside your base, then yeah. Note again I'm not making any judgements at all, and my use of the word 'exploit' seems to be carrying a negative connotation I didn't intend. It's completely natural to keep doing whatever's working.

Quote from: Enox on March 04, 2010, 01:31:01 AM
Wow. Just read the update about 6.0

Honestly, I'm really awful at this game and I kind of didn't remember. The old Easy AI that everyone has in their Launchers, is of course, too fraking easy. Even the medium is easy. for some reason 5.5 (no cheating) is just really hard to me. I can't imagine 6.0 being harder. The AI just constantly throws units while simultaneously building and expanding, and I cant keep up lol. I really suck at Starcraft haha.

Keep in mind that players that consider the AIs very easy are most likely using a lot of tricks that exploit the AI's (lack of) intelligence. Not "on purpose" but because these exploits are standard gaming against human opponents. Walls, harassing units, and ranged units in general are all things the AI is ill-equipped to deal with.


But if you're a newbie playing Terran and don't know how to build a proper Terran wall, let alone if you don't even know what a Terran wall is... it's only natural that you're gonna have a LOT more trouble.

I love you guys so much it isn't even funny. Like, if we were to meet in real life... and I somehow happened to know what you look like, to identify you... depending on the state we were in, certain statutes just might be broken.


On a serious note, two questions: 1) offensive bunkers? 2) warp-in, especially offensive warp-in? Can the AI do either in 6.0, and if not, is there hope for these kind of things in the future?

Quote from: itsarabbit on March 01, 2010, 02:01:41 PM

Quote from: ooni on February 28, 2010, 06:59:00 PM

Quote from: Mangala on February 28, 2010, 04:24:29 PM
I just realized - the best kind of AI is probably one that would randomly choose build order code every game so you never know what it will mass. As of now, the Terran AI will always mass battlecruisers, which is annoying.

No, best AI would be AI that build counter-units. Remember Racine's Rebel in SC1? The AI would be really good (complete counter, still cheats in terms of map visibility) but had no micro. If the AIs in SC2 can micro then with ability to build counter units they will be pretty phat. yes ph, phat.

Hardest =/= Best.

This. It might not have as good win/loss ratio, but the games against it would be way more fun. You know what a countering AI will do because it counters the units you get, and you know what units you get. You can essentially choose the AI's BO for him for the entire match and act accordingly. An AI that goes for weird, random strats of his own choosing (mixed with counters, of course) will SURPRISE you because his decisions aren't based entirely on your decisions. That's a challenge in and of itself.

Been playing around some more, and walls definitely destroy AIs. They just don't know how to deal with them.


It might be too early to tell, but does it look like this is potentially solveable, given enough time and manpower? I can't imagine what sort of "IF" statement a blocked choke could fulfill, so as to be identified... but I sure hope it's possible!


Maybe it'll be at least partially fixed as soon as (/if) the retreat bug is out of the way. They'll still be slaughtered en masse, but at least they might seriously attempt to take the wall down in the meantime.

Thanks so much for the great work. I'd all but given up on having worthwhile opinions on the game during beta...


One of the biggest problems has to be predictability. Both times the AI beat me it was because I didn't see his strat coming -- mass Carriers in 4FFA and mass zergling rush in 1v1. Unfortunately this is a one-trick wonder... once the cat's out of the bag, it's easy to analyze/beat.


I was wondering if it's possible to throw in some really edgy all-in sort of strats for the early/mid game... like, right now T seems to go mass M&M every game. What if that were only to happen 50% of the time, and the other 50% he'd play defensively, teching ASAP to mass Reapers OR mass Hellions? The uncertainty factor alone should make me play more cautiously.


Also, how about some serious defenses in general? I've yet to see a Planetary Fortress, and that could be a HUGE deterrent to my rushes against a comp's expand.


Just some food for thought. Thanks again.