DarkBlizz

Quote from: ProzaicMuze on March 27, 2010, 01:12:26 PM
First and foremost, we're not talking about a logo.  [Entry 1] is any graphical modification of the site.  That includes everything from the font to the buttons to the borders to the images (and logo).  That is what I mean by generalization.  You're stating that something is much smaller thus requiring less work.  The contest permits that the entry can be as simple or demanding to create as the creator chooses.  ItzMattu was stating that [Entry 3] wasn't a fair choice because it was more involved.  In actuality, all 3 of the entries can be difficult projects requiring a great length of time to complete.  The difference is how much time you CHOOSE to invest.

As far as trying to decide if a contest is profitable or not, I'd suggest you're missing out on the idea behind it.  If I was looking for a profitable venture I'd go straight to the source, not create a fun piece with the possible chance of winning something.  The operative word being "fun."  Is the concept of doing something for fun really so foreign to you that you've reduced life to a balance sheet of profit and non-profit?  Not to mention that if you're considering using the possibility of buying a Beta Key (which is against the rules and can get you banned if caught) as a measure of worth you're missing the point entirely.

This thread is about questions and I'm not here to argue semantics with you.  I tried to make a positive contribution to remind everyone that the difficulty of submissions is entirely up to those who participate.  Either you'll understand what I'm trying to say and stop belittling us for our efforts or you'll continue to troll this Q&A thread.

Either way I'm done with this conversation.  I've made my points and those they need to reach will appreciate them.

And running to insults in the end. Typical.


Also: "Entry 1: Create a logo image for DarkBlizz.  Dimensions can be anywhere between 0x0px - 1500x1500px.  Be creative, anything goes, animated, non-animated, new motto's, etc."

Quote from: ProzaicMuze on March 27, 2010, 12:26:04 PM
Puciek, the blatant ignorance of your post is astounding and counter-productive to the intent of my post.  ItzMattu made a great post, but didn't realize that graphic design DOES take considerable time in various cases.  Your post takes everything out of context and makes sweeping generalizations about my line of work.

  I edit images for photographers, design websites (yes that DOES include  coding at times), create banners, logos and templates, own multiple online businesses and can say with confidence that I DO know what I'm  talking about when it comes to the comparative use of time regarding  coding and design.

As someone who makes a good living with graphic design "in the market" I'm simply going to say you can't apply that mentality to this contest because it is exactly that: a "contest."  Why?  Because we've been given more than "3-5 days" to work on this project.  We've been asked to provide our very best work (in hopes that it is perceived to be better than someone ELSE's very best work) with the goal of winning a prize. I don't see money involved, I don't see a specific request and I definitely don't see the word "job" anywhere in that. 

I'm going to take you as an example.  You hire designers by putting out a request.  Typically you'll put out a general request or you'll approach an individual or group of individuals.  The very first thing you cover is what you want.  If you're any good at your job, you'll have a good idea of what you want, the things it needs to accomplish and most importantly "size, colors and text."  Then the designer will tell you how much it will cost and you'll slap down a deadline.  An agreement is made.

That designer now has everything they need to make your desired product.  What you don't know (given that you're not a designer) is that they'll now go through their templates based on the size you want.  Then they'll colorize it to your theme.  Then they'll quickly research your site, find something suitable to match your font with (if not directly) and set to work.  A few hours of quick work and they can reciprocate the feel of your business and call it good.

They'll send you a rough draft, you'll look it over and make additional requests (if needed) and then the transaction is over.  You bet it won't take 3-5 days because you've asked them to do something mindlessly repetitive and easy and given them the things they need for inspiration.

With this contest we have little to no restraints on what we're allowed to make.  For coding, that really doesn't mean much because there isn't as much "art" in so far as the inner workings.  That's not to say that creating an interface for said program isn't artistic, but that's usually not what we're talking about and in many cases that part is outsourced to a designer.  You CAN expand upon the functions in the program, but each function is usually created in near identical ways.  Why?  Because you can't change the way the code itself functions.

Creating a free-form banner is pure interpretation.  If you have any background in music (I also play the piano, 17 years now), it's kinda like that.  If you write a song, their is no formula to successful music.  Not to mention there is always a wide variety of musical tastes.  Those same tastes apply to artwork.  There is no "taste" in code outside of choosing which coding language you prefer to use and what functions you like to use on average.

And i'm picking out of the context, post with blatant ignorance o.0. Based on your post, i assume that you are simply projecting your own "boo boo" on me. Also you are implying that i said that work of artis/designer cannot take as much time as coding a download system which is not true for any larger project (ie. project of big site that includes multiple different applications) but when it comes to designing something as small as logo it doesn't take more than 1 working day of typical artist.
Prove me wrong on this one and show me a company that pays artist for more than 1 day of work to design a logo.


And any contest (that gives rewards with monetary value) can be easily converted into terms of "profitable" or "not profitable", if reward is worth less than you would earn by working the same time - it's not worth it. Simple as that. Why would you invest more than the reward is worth (and still without 100% chance to win it) ?


As for taking me as example, you've missed. I tell a designer that let's say i need a logo for a company, then we talk for an hour during which we get an early sketch ready (this is the time to take a look at our site). Then based on that after 2 next hours i got about 10 samples ready from which we make one pick, give final changes and in the end of the day - logo is done and we can move on.


And lol @ "each function is usually created in near identical ways", really made me laugh. Following that logic, every program that for the same task is written in exactly same way (so there is no difference between Joomla or lets say WordPress).

Quote from: enjoikr3w on March 27, 2010, 12:03:12 PM
I have probably put about 15-20 hours of work into my banner to get to the point it is now. It's easy to underestimate how much time and effort goes into making a design when looking at the final product but trust me, theres a lot of trial&error to get it to that point. There is a huge difference between a kid that just downloaded photoshop making a design and someone who has experience in these sorts of things. It's all about the details.

I do hire graphics and designers and i'm perfectly aware how much per hour i pay them and how many hours it took them to finish something. So here comes my question, do you do this for a living ? Because this is what makes a difference between "a kid" and "someone who has experience".


Mind that if you are working and you've spent a 20h on a project to win 70$ (approx price of invitation on ebay) then you have not made the best decision of the week (unless you work for 3,5$/h). And thats pretty much the reason why there is only one entry to #3, because it's nowhere near worth it.

Quote from: ProzaicMuze on March 27, 2010, 11:38:44 AM
I'd just like to point out to ItzMattu that coding an Uploader won't necessarily take a significantly greater time to develop than a piece of artwork.  Especially if said banner is fully interactive, website friendly and professionally done.  Just like with a professionally done anything when it comes to design.

There are definitely more minimum requirements and the coding isn't exactly "up for interpretation," but please don't discount that fact that graphic design can take just as long as coding.

A perfect example would be comparing someone who designs an intricate banner and navigation bar from scratch vs someone who takes an already functioning Uploader and adapts it to the DarkBlizz site.

If you don't assume everyone is going to start from scratch, especially in coding where so much of the code can be repeatedly used, the length of time for completion isn't so widely varying.

Properly writing application for #3 with proper testing is about 3-5 working days of typical programmer (that's with use of pre made components) unless you will just jump into randomDownloadSystem.php and then hit wall with your head because of all bugs/poor coding. And even then, it's still about a day of work.

If it takes you 3-5 working days to design a banner then you will not  cut it the market (unless you are on the same scale as Modigliani, then this may be acceptable timeframe), simple as that.

Quote from: erulabs on March 26, 2010, 10:50:47 PM

Quote from: Puciek on March 26, 2010, 10:10:20 AM
http://erulabs.com/p/darkblizz_downloads/index.php/"><script>window.alert('hello')</script><

Uh, got syntax errors? 

That sir is an XSS, not syntax error.

http://erulabs.com/p/darkblizz_downloads/index.php/"><script>window.alert('hello')</script><

I have old download manager ready in python if you want it (dunno will you take python), it's running on postgres but downgrading it to sqlite should not be a problem (and no, i won't touch mysql ;p).