Completely useless units

Started by ajax, March 20, 2010, 08:14:18 PM

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ajax

Here are some useless or just god-afwul units so far in the starcraft 2 beta
Zerg
-infestor(way too slow to be of any use, never seen them in replays)
Terran
-Thor(much controversy about this unit, in my opinion, siege tanks are better for the money and much more versitile)
-Battlecruiser is kind of weak now since they do multiple attacks that can be easily reduced by armor(still has yamoto cannon though  ;D )
Protoss
-Colossus(only useful against tier 1 units, costs too much, and too fragile)
-Pheonix(never seen it used succsesfully, low attack, low hp, ability not practical)

These are just the ones off the top of my head
Feel free to express your opinions below

seed013

#1
I've actually seen all of these units used successfully except maybe bcs and some in high level play, though I would agree that a lot of those units need tweaking. watch hdstarcraft and huskystarcraft replays on youtube and they show off these units at some point

funny use of phoenix http://www.youtube.com/user/SC2GGRise#p/u/10/Tf9igV1e1Xo

Phoenix Down

Infestor
I've seen Infestors and it's neural parasite ability used well by Oversky. I've seen HDStarcraft also use fungal growth, not to its maxed potential but enough to pay for the cost of the unit. The spawn infested terran skill is utterly useless, it seems its only purpose is for lore and the Zerg theme of infesting humans. Personally I think neural parasite is a tad bit overpowered, a 10 second mind control stil removes an enemy unit from battle and strengthens your forces, especially when taking higher tech units. Fungal growth is extremely powerful as well, not only can a snare decimate your enemy's units during their unfavourable encounter but it can actually reveal cloaked units as well. It's a soft counter but 8 seconds is alot of time.

Thor
I generally agree, its too expensive for what it brings to the battlefield. It's too easily focus fired so its pretty much just a support unit behind primary units. The armor on it is 1 right now which is a little silly, (roach has more wow) so i think it should at least be 2, and its hp increased to 450. It's got great damage and AA though.
Oh and the ability is good, really untraditional for SC and its pretty circumstancial but ok.

Battlecruiser
I think the changed attack is to make battlecruisers much less capable of being critically massed. Before it did 25 attack instantly and once you had a dozen of these it would be pretty hard stopping it. It also puts the battlecruiser on the level of the carrier in terms of how much armor affects the attack.

Collosus
This unit works really well for me, but then again I play against computers. I've got really mixed feelings about reavers dissapearing and collusi, especially when i first heard. I loved using reavers as a mainly protoss player but at the same time I also hated facing the reaver, which says alot i would think. Collosus while not as powerful as reavers, are alot easier to use and much easier to keep alive. They truly shine when are properly supported and shielded by other units and have 2-3+. They are truly capable of decimating low hp units. Combined with psi storms, protoss can finish a bttle quickly.

RagingPolarBear

Infestor

The infestor actually isn't bad against terran infantry with its fungal growth, though it really could use a speed boost. Still I wouldn't call it useless. Honestly I think we'll start seeing more when the zerg players catch on to how useful they can be. There's really no reason you wouldn't want to mix them in with your roaches/hydras. Neural parasite is also pretty nice against power ground. 

Thor

The thor actually is rather powerful, mostly it's just that few terrans actually bother to go metal in SC2. It may be something like the vulture where it takes a while for people to realize how good it is. I figure its main use will be in TvT to ward off banshees, since it does that exceptionally well. Not to mention its a total beast against ground.

Battlecruiser

The battlecruiser is also pretty useful, it's just that it's a high tech unit and most games thus far haven't gotten that far. From what little I've played on battle.net, I can tell you that the game is heavily based on rushes. So naturally BCs won't see much use until it's balanced out a bit better.

Collosus

Main problem I see with this unit is that air can hit it. I can still see it getting some use in PvZ though. It's actually not that difficult to micro it out of the way of ground, since it can walk over your own units. The main problem is that the guy builds a few vikings and can just blow it to all hell, because protoss ground to air is so weak (stalkers suck bad)

SupraDoom

The only one I have any complaints about in your list is the Thor. Just too slow and big to make it highly effective. It would be cool if they would bring back the Goliath and you could "Transform" 2 of them into a Thor.

BC's are still good. I would almost say better even. I spent a lot of time testing them 1 on 1 vs other units and from what I can remember only one unit beat it? It may have been an immortal.

zeratus

Quote from: ajax on March 20, 2010, 08:14:18 PM
Here are some useless or just god-afwul units so far in the starcraft 2 beta
Zerg
-infestor(way too slow to be of any use, never seen them in replays)
Terran
-Thor(much controversy about this unit, in my opinion, siege tanks are better for the money and much more versitile)
-Battlecruiser is kind of weak now since they do multiple attacks that can be easily reduced by armor(still has yamoto cannon though  ;D )
Protoss
-Colossus(only useful against tier 1 units, costs too much, and too fragile)
-Pheonix(never seen it used succsesfully, low attack, low hp, ability not practical)

These are just the ones off the top of my head
Feel free to express your opinions below
Well u are really wrong for battlecruser and Thor: BC is very usefull 2v2 game,make 10 of them and u will clear the map. Thor have imba air range, not to mention 250mm Cannons which make Ultralisc to vanish from the fight.
Colossus will be very good unit if they cant be hit from air(maybe will be too good:)
I am so agree for Pheonix - Most Useless from all the units in game.Only think is good is to make illusion from sentry and scout.
How can u say infestor  is useless??? so imba- Burrowed Movement; Neural Parasite and Fungal Growth
So crazy abilities.
I still dont think Void Ray is useful enough; too small dmg at the begining of the attack. U cant haras with him. if u stop attack even for a sec, your dmg is back to 2!!!Only good vs buildings.

ooni

#6
Quote from: zeratus on March 22, 2010, 04:10:49 AM
I am so agree for Pheonix - Most Useless from all the units in game.

It's Phoenix ("Enix") and this is my reply
HD StarCraft - Azz vs aLt - 1v1 - PvP - Part 1
There has been several pro match ups where phoenix were used like the video above.

I'm sure the none of SC2 units will be useless until expansion comes out.
Remember SC1 (pre-broodwar) Scouts were actually used other than as a taunt unit.

r0fl

I'm only really going to comment about the Colossus as I am a Protoss player. I think that they have been made very well by Blizzard, I find that they support my Stalkers really well during the end game stages. Blizzard can't make them as powerful as it seems you would like them to, they would be just overpowered and Starcraft II is alot about balance.

The Colossus have the 'Cliff Walk' ability and can move through your units, these along with the long range research and you have one mean machine. I think its safe to say that the Colossus is a near perfect unit. Mean offense, weak to moderate defense, but not so hard to keep alive.

On a side note, I'm not sure how effective a Sentry's shield is, but I'm sure it would help the Colossus out a fair bit in terms of defensive power if you were to couple them.

zeratus

good replay ooni...
But the only reason this tactic win i coz red protoss dont have most powerful resource of this game - Information.
Weak scouting, weak army weak tactic; why in the hell he send 2 colossus to just die? Good tactic from the Blue player but still red look his base too late.

Man7a

Good replay, nice commenting in it as well.. who was teh commentator in it?

Also i think Blue just wanted to kill as much probes with colosus since they where useless to do any thing else with at that stage, I don't think he realized he would get spotted by tower, he could not send whole army else his probes would get pwned, so he just needed to get a phew shots off on probes before they would be destroyed. but that is what happens when you don't scout sufficiently.

My 2 cents
Manta

huhen

Colossus are anything but UnderP. Well it's true that the are only good against t1 units thats all Terran get and it owns zerg too. Your wrong!


RagingPolarBear

The pheonix is necessary if you want to counter air as protoss, since stalkers are basically horrible. If a terran goes banshees, or a toss goes void rays, you practically need pheonixes to counter.

And the pheonix really isn't a terrible unit either with its graviton beam. It can be a nice way to assassinate specific units like ghosts or siege tanks.

Unlike SC1, SC2 really doesn't have any obviously useless units. While the high tech units will always be seen less (simply because they're high tech), that doesn't mean they aren't useful.

Also, there just hasn't been much exploration into the metagame yet. Right now it seems like all terrans go marine/marauder and all toss do robotics first to immortals. Zerg are either mass roach or mass hydra. This makes units that don't fit into the counter scheme there to seem useless, but as the metagame develops and people learn to beat these strategies (and units get nerfed), we're going to see more units used.

Artanis186

I disagree. Colossi are indeed quite effective against low tier units, but they are also powerful vs. higher tier. Be near a cliff and they're easy to micro with. 1 attack upgrade and they're dealing 50 splash damage per shot. combined with the extended lance upgrade, he's gonna have more range than the reaver. The colossus is a very powerful unit, he is not to be taken lightly. Just look at the reaver, that unit wasn't very beefy in hp/sp either. But it made due.

Imo, the Mothership is the truly useless unit. Its cost doesn't meet its effectiveness at all.

RagingPolarBear

Quote from: Artanis186 on March 22, 2010, 08:16:23 PM
Imo, the Mothership is the truly useless unit. Its cost doesn't meet its effectiveness at all.

What? The mothership is damn awesome.

Permacloaks all your units, has a powerful attack, and can put a bunch of enemy units in a black hole?

I mean it's not something you want in the front lines, but as a support unit, it's excellent and well worth the money.

Nissep

I agree with thors. They are slow, and no health and armor what so ever. They do good damage though!