v5.1 - First time I lost to a non-cheating AI...

Bebops · March 01, 2010, 02:17:20 PM

Eh, kinda cool. All AI's get turned into cake vs any eco harassing or containment

. Can't wait for the emulated server to come up.

blaze2 · March 01, 2010, 02:20:30 PM

Heya

First - much of respect to everyone involved in making the AI possible (including launcher etc etc)

So, just had a quick ZvZ game on Lost Temple. The AI is pretty fine imho, although I rushed it back into the oblivion (whoopsie

). It tries to expand, keeps producing units, has finally somewhat nice attack/retreat algorithms (yay no more wimpy ai

), but one thing I literally laughed out at was an insane amount of inactive gatherers at the main base when it was on the brink of destruction - but that might be because the AI expanded and started sending gatherers into the new base which I destroyed mwohaha

So I guess the poor little guys were idle and had nothing to do

Oh yeah and another nice fact in the state of desperation the poor guy also tried to attack me with drones. lulz.

Anyhoo, keep it up, I'm somewhat hooked to SC2 right now.

Going to play some MOAR. Cheers!
Blaze2

Gamewiz · March 01, 2010, 02:27:25 PM

I forgot to mention something regarding this AI (I've noticed it with multiple versions). The way the AI expands is not very smart. For instance, say I move out and destroy a random expansion (NOT their natural expansion). Instead of them trying a different place to expand (because there are like 3-4 other very viable expansions they could go to), they just keep sending one drone after another, trying to retake that exact same expansion I just took out. It's like they get stuck in this order, even if I have my army parked there.

It effectively breaks the AI, and makes me win just because they will then spend every last mineral they have just pumping out harvesters trying to take that expansion. And they won't change strategy. Ever. They won't even try to guard these harvesters, they just send them one at a time to be slaughtered.

It's like the AI has a script of "expand to natural > expand to next nearest expansion > repeat". And if I attack one of their expansions, they will not expand EVER until they can claim that expansion back.

Hope this bit of info helps!

blaze2 · March 01, 2010, 02:51:25 PM

First - I totally agree with Gamewiz.

Second, just finished a 4-player FFA game and it was kinda neato, althought I did it like the first time, then the remaining two AIs fought some battles, the one got wiped and I just stormed the remaining one with loads of hydras. But it is fun, just some more tweaks and we'll be having formidable oponents in no time

oldboy · March 01, 2010, 03:06:29 PM

I just played 2 games so far with v5.1. My first game was ZvZ and the AI seems to send in good waves of units, zerlings first then hydra/roaches and mutas afterwards. I didnt have any AA at the time so I almost lost. I sent a bunch of roaches to its base burrowing and unburrowing and the units always retreats back even though there are overlords all over its base around my roaches

.

The second game was PvZ, it seems like I always see it scouting twice with the worker once every minute and that doesnt seem to do anything and stops after I kill it

. The AI this time around was very slow though, it already expanded before I did but had hardly any units at all and I sent in a wave of T1 units and then it started to build but too late.

Gamewiz · March 01, 2010, 03:10:43 PM

Quote from: oldboy on March 01, 2010, 03:06:29 PM
I just played 2 games so far with v5.1. My first game was ZvZ and the AI seems to send in good waves of units, zerlings first then hydra/roaches and mutas afterwards. I didnt have any AA at the time so I almost lost. I sent a bunch of roaches to its base burrowing and unburrowing and the units always retreats back even though there are overlords all over its base around my roaches .

The second game was PvZ, it seems like I always see it scouting twice with the worker once every minute and that doesnt seem to do anything and stops after I kill it . The AI this time around was very slow though, it already expanded before I did but had hardly any units at all and I sent in a wave of T1 units and then it started to build but too late.

Overlords are not detectors in SC2. You have to upgrade an overlord to an overseer to have it become a detector. So they were running because they really couldn't see you.

oldboy · March 01, 2010, 03:19:07 PM

Quote from: Gamewiz on March 01, 2010, 03:10:43 PM
Quote from: oldboy on March 01, 2010, 03:06:29 PM
I just played 2 games so far with v5.1. My first game was ZvZ and the AI seems to send in good waves of units, zerlings first then hydra/roaches and mutas afterwards. I didnt have any AA at the time so I almost lost. I sent a bunch of roaches to its base burrowing and unburrowing and the units always retreats back even though there are overlords all over its base around my roaches .

The second game was PvZ, it seems like I always see it scouting twice with the worker once every minute and that doesnt seem to do anything and stops after I kill it . The AI this time around was very slow though, it already expanded before I did but had hardly any units at all and I sent in a wave of T1 units and then it started to build but too late.

Overlords are not detectors in SC2. You have to upgrade an overlord to an overseer to have it become a detector. So they were running because they really couldn't see you.

Wow I didnt realize that

mithhunter55 · March 01, 2010, 03:19:51 PM

I cant win, the mixture of units is to good haha...

ProoM · March 01, 2010, 03:28:07 PM

Some more thoughts on the AI: AI doesn't expand to the expansions behind destroyable rocks, doesn't destroy any destroyable rocks at all :}.

itsarabbit · March 01, 2010, 04:34:09 PM

AAAAAAAAH!!! Makeitstopmakeitstopmakeitstopmakeitstopmakeitstop
They are expanding all the time, and I hate hunting them. Yes, I know that I can leave units behind, but it's still very very annoying.

Gamewiz · March 01, 2010, 04:35:59 PM

Quote from: oldboy on March 01, 2010, 03:19:07 PMWow I didnt realize that

Lol ya. Makes it alot easier now to nuke a zerg base.

SpiriT · March 01, 2010, 04:59:45 PM

Hey, thanks guys for this AI, what programming language have you used? Could try to help if it's any of those I know

lovetoby · March 01, 2010, 06:18:29 PM

so far pretty well... P vs T || P vs P || T vs T is very good balanced

BUT: P vs Z || T vs Z is too easy, Zerg Brute always runs away if u attack them and expanded Buidings are not protected, also thier air protection is still lousy!

I think these are major problems!!

millenium · March 01, 2010, 06:31:53 PM

Agree ... in SC1 AI play this way - 1st secure the spot with army and afterthat expand with new base, and this way will stop annoying builds of new bases after gg...

Rain[sun] · March 01, 2010, 06:59:38 PM

Mad props to the makers of these AI's, I'm still somewhat fresh to SC2 but Im fairly experienced in SC1, and im noticing the builds and strategys are relatively the same, just a few tweaks in between.

For developping AI, I'm sure you've already thought or implemented it but 75%+ of a win comes from the use of micro/spell's and upgrades. Massing a bulk army is all good but it won't win you a game against a good player, or in this case what I hope you can make the AI. Im finding a lot of ways to trick the AI's, like for example:

Their script in v5.0 tells them to retreat, presumably when they have lost x% of their army, but If i block the ramp, like I did by blinking, they just run at my units without attacking forever.

I realize I could just avoid doing things like that but afterall, Im sure you love feedback so this is just my 2cents!