StarCrack AI Official Thread (Latest Version: 7.0 )

[killabyte]

Real pain in the ass is cheated version, i cant beat him, he attacks me all time! And spread with new bases so fast.

Yea, the best way to beat the hard AI is to harass him alot. If you turtle in your base/natural you will definitely lose.

that's for sure.  i can play lost temple and defend my base while building up an army to attack and win every time.  but if i play a 1v1 on blistering sands the only blistering that happens is my ass when the AI is done with me. 


i learned last night that you have to constantly build build build and build some more and keep the pressure on him or he will eventually wear out your defenses.  i was spending so much time rebuilding my defense that i wasn't able to expand properly and get on the offensive.  he would just break me down each time.  that was my first game that i won on blistering sands and it was TvT.  i seemed to get easily raped by protoss on that map.  hoping to figure that one out next time it happens.

[Gamewiz]

Real pain in the ass is cheated version, i cant beat him, he attacks me all time! And spread with new bases so fast.

Yea, the best way to beat the hard AI is to harass him alot. If you turtle in your base/natural you will definitely lose.

that's for sure.  i can play lost temple and defend my base while building up an army to attack and win every time.  but if i play a 1v1 on blistering sands the only blistering that happens is my ass when the AI is done with me. 


i learned last night that you have to constantly build build build and build some more and keep the pressure on him or he will eventually wear out your defenses.  i was spending so much time rebuilding my defense that i wasn't able to expand properly and get on the offensive.  he would just break me down each time.  that was my first game that i won on blistering sands and it was TvT.  i seemed to get easily raped by protoss on that map.  hoping to figure that one out next time it happens.

The trick is automatically counter-attacking whenever he attacks. The second you beat him, push back. I win every time.

[Astazha]

Thanks for all the work you're doing on this.  Is there a beginner's guide to editing these scripts that would explain how to unpack them, make changes, and repack?


I would say that I see these general weaknesses in the AI so far:


-In general the AI does not exhibit good map control.  It's very focused on destroying me but not so focused on claiming and denying territory.  AI could be more effective by scouting my possible expansion locations sooner & more reliably.  Particularly for the hard to access ones (behind rocks, on islands).  AI will often get a mililtary advantage over me and then respond to effective defenses by throwing more and more units at me until it runs out of money.  If some resources were allocated to expanding it's economy while I'm down and turtled that would spell my doom.


-AI does not seem to respond well to cloaked threats.  Tends to build too many towers, etc. instead of focusing on mobile detection.  Blows scans too early instead of waiting for combat units to arrive.  I can often run the AI out of scans and then run all over it for a short while.


-AI sometimes has billions of workers at the main late game if expansions have been taken out.  This is related to the map control point earlier, but it needs to prioritize it's economy in a running-out-of-money=death kind of way.  I am frequently able to come back and win in the late game when I was beat down in mid-game by running the AI out of money.


-I would love to see offensive unit selection taking full advantage of my weaknesses.  If I fail to build overseers it should punish me with cloaked units.  No anti-air?  Here come the mutalisks.


-Use of cloaked/burrowed units for scouting (and changelings.) my bases and potential expansion locations.


-Use of watchtowers.


-More effective and targeted harassment of my worker lines.  Players prioritize killing the enemy's economy, but the AI seems satisfied to engage my front line unless there is an undefended expansion somewhere.  Mutas, roaches, phase prisms, valkyries, drop ships, etc.  I should be afraid for my workers.


-Distraction attacks.  Players have limited attention.  Attack my front lines with zerglings and then come into my main worker line with mutalisks while my attention is on the other battle.


-Break rocks.  I've actually never seen the AI do this for any reason.  Come in the back door on those maps, expand to the blocked areas, etc. 


-General sneakiness - related to rock breaking... This might fall more under pathing - a sort of general intelligence of "what possible access routes do I have?  What forces block each of those?  How mobile are those forces?"  People tend to turtle up at their ramp.  The AI shouldn't storm the front gates in those circumstances unless it knows what is there and how to counter it.


-Retreat if it's not working.  Countless times I have 4 dark templars on my ramp killing the mob of ultras that was trying to get in.  If the situation looks that bad, they should leave.


Thanks again for all of your work.  I have no idea how hard these things are to implement, so forgive me if I'm asking for anything unreasonable.

[killabyte]

that's what i learned last night but i dont' really like to play that way.  i like to build nukes and sneak in the back and nuke all the scv's.  plant some siege tanks somewhere that its hard for him to get to.  that kind of stuff   


problem is the AI is all business.  i counted close to 40 scv's in his original base.  i was working just as hard as he was to build and expand and keep an offensive going yet he had so much more stuff than i did.


i just got to figure out how to counter that intial protoss attack on that map and then i can work on some strategies.  seems like 3 marines get easily raped by 1 zealot and i hate walling in.  just seems like it defeats the purpose or something, i dunno.

[Gamewiz]

that's what i learned last night but i dont' really like to play that way.  i like to build nukes and sneak in the back and nuke all the scv's.  plant some siege tanks somewhere that its hard for him to get to.  that kind of stuff   


problem is the AI is all business.  i counted close to 40 scv's in his original base.  i was working just as hard as he was to build and expand and keep an offensive going yet he had so much more stuff than i did.


i just got to figure out how to counter that intial protoss attack on that map and then i can work on some strategies.  seems like 3 marines get easily raped by 1 zealot and i hate walling in.  just seems like it defeats the purpose or something, i dunno.

Walling in is a vital terran strategy, and if you have the way to do it (which all these maps have that option), then do it. Clearly with depots being able to raise and lower, that must mean something. Why else would they have that option?

[killabyte]

oh i'm not saying that it isn't a viable strategy, just don't like doing it.

[devinmorris]

ETA 7.0?

[Gamewiz]

oh i'm not saying that it isn't a viable strategy, just don't like doing it.

Well, not sure what to tell you then. If you have a hard time beating the AI, but don't use viable strategies that will help you win, then I can't really tell you anything else...

[itsarabbit]

oh i'm not saying that it isn't a viable strategy, just don't like doing it.

Well, not sure what to tell you then. If you have a hard time beating the AI, but don't use viable strategies that will help you win, then I can't really tell you anything else...

ohohoh! I know dis one!
use siege tanks with siege tech, and they're done for it.

[unre4l]

Thanks guys , going to try it !

Something i noticed in 6.0 is that AI doesn't use his burrow ability properly. Yes , he burrows Roaches and Zerglings , but he doesnt move them while they are under.

I really hope AI defense properly against air units , cuz everytime i beat his ass up with Battlecruisers and Carriers

[wmh]

First of all great job on this AI, works surprisingly well. =D

Don't know if this has been said before but just wanted to point something out that could be worked on for next release:
When playing as Terran against any AI, you can basically win every time by using the bunker + SCV trick. AI will always attack bunker, in the mean time you just fix with as many SCVs as necessary and little by little AI gets decimated as it doesn't think of killing off the SCVs first. =/


Anyway just thought I'd mention this. =)

[unre4l]

First of all great job on this AI, works surprisingly well. =D

Don't know if this has been said before but just wanted to point something out that could be worked on for next release:
When playing as Terran against any AI, you can basically win every time by using the bunker + SCV trick. AI will always attack bunker, in the mean time you just fix with as many SCVs as necessary and little by little AI gets decimated as it doesn't think of killing off the SCVs first. =/


Anyway just thought I'd mention this. =)

^LOL gona try this !!

[pandacrazy]

I noticed that when i was playing Z vs Z, my scout overlord would attract all the lings that my opponent was rushing (as if they were trying to attack it >_>)

Edit: i noticed this with protoss too where the zealots would just stand outside my base under my overlord

[kurupted]

Hehe, out of boredom just played vs 3 teamed up zerg as terran    , without marine rushing . Total bloodbath it was, I barely managed to win, thanks to battlecruisers and MM drop.




Patiently waiting for a new version! o/

[kblood]

Hehe, out of boredom just played vs 3 teamed up zerg as terran   , without marine rushing . Total bloodbath it was, I barely managed to win, thanks to battlecruisers and MM drop.




Patiently waiting for a new version! o/

Nice I have still only played about 10-15 full games of SC2 total. So I have barely gotten the hang of it yet. Most the time I have been looking at how the AI battles the AI. So I sometimes still struggle against 1 AI. Probably because I should stick to one race at a time and get to know the new ways of building up fast, efficiently and in the right order. When to expand, and when to just pump out troops, and when to tech up. It all needs a good balance and done in the right order. Especially since the AI seems to have become almost better than me. Zerg vs Zerg 1on1 I have a hard time winning. My build order sucks compared to the AIs it seems 
Which makes Starcraft 2 all the more interesting for now Would be a bit boring having mastered this game before I could play against real people anyway.