Confused about AI difficulties

progamer63 · March 04, 2010, 06:51:42 PM

I've been using the Starcrack 5.5, cheating version, Goose v4, and the various chinese "hard" versions posted on these forums.

I'm aware this is a beta, and all of these AIs are works in progress... but at the moment not a single one of them is even as good as the Easy AI from Starcraft/Broodwar. I guess what confuses me is that I keep seeing posts on here about how hard these AIs are (cheating versions, mostly) and I can't help but wonder if I'm doing something wrong.

I mean, I find it very hard to believe anyone who's played SC/BW before would ever lose even a 1v3 against any of these AIs; let alone a 1v1. Likewise, these AIs seem to be running at full capacity; some are hitting 500-600 APM at times and doubling my resources. Because of this, I'm fairly certain everything is running properly.

I guess my question is... have most of you just never played an RTS before, or am I somehow causing the AIs to malfunction (I've tried rushing them, letting them rush me, dragging the match out, etc... doesn't seem to matter)?

Props to the people coding these AIs, because I'm sure it's a lot of work and I have no doubt it will continue to improve... but at the moment it only took my five year old less than 10 games to start beating the cheating AIs 100% of the time. Just seems like I'm missing something because I can't believe anyone could ever be challenged by the current AIs, and yet I keep reading forum posts by people who are.

goosie · March 04, 2010, 06:56:39 PM

They're called "hard" because they're many orders of magnitude "harder" than original VeryEasy AI that comes with official beta. They're not actually difficult to beat yet. To get them up to par with human players would probably take weeks of development by modders here and elsewhere. Blizzard's own Hard and VeryHard AI's are much, much harder to beat I'm sure. But the script files (and possibly even some functions) are not in the beta so we can't use them :\

David · March 04, 2010, 07:12:41 PM

new account
only post
$:-\$

Splashy5 · March 04, 2010, 07:15:21 PM

cool story bro

gauban · March 04, 2010, 07:18:31 PM

wow his 5 years old beat a cheating starcrack 5.5

chetjan · March 04, 2010, 07:25:23 PM

Wait for V6 and just use that XD

gutomnaako · March 05, 2010, 07:25:12 AM

ei how can i get the AI v 5.5 ? advance thanks

Nesreca · March 05, 2010, 04:09:54 PM

Quote from: progamer63 on March 04, 2010, 06:51:42 PM
I'm aware this is a beta, and all of these AIs are works in progress... but at the moment not a single one of them is even as good as the Easy AI from Starcraft/Broodwar. I guess what confuses me is that I keep seeing posts on here about how hard these AIs are (cheating versions, mostly) and I can't help but wonder if I'm doing something wrong.

I mean, I find it very hard to believe anyone who's played SC/BW before would ever lose even a 1v3 against any of these AIs; let alone a 1v1. Likewise, these AIs seem to be running at full capacity; some are hitting 500-600 APM at times and doubling my resources. Because of this, I'm fairly certain everything is running properly.

I guess my question is... have most of you just never played an RTS before, or am I somehow causing the AIs to malfunction (I've tried rushing them, letting them rush me, dragging the match out, etc... doesn't seem to matter)?

Props to the people coding these AIs, because I'm sure it's a lot of work and I have no doubt it will continue to improve... but at the moment it only took my five year old less than 10 games to start beating the cheating AIs 100% of the time. Just seems like I'm missing something because I can't believe anyone could ever be challenged by the current AIs, and yet I keep reading forum posts by people who are.

Firstly - Star Craft 2 is not a Darkblizz production, it is a Blizzard Entertainment production.

Second - All of the AIs have been developed by people like Turdburgler and Goosie over the last WEEK. That's right. One whole week. Blizzard Entertainment had a lot of time to work on their AIs before the retail game SC1 was released, and they had teams of people working on the AIs in SC1.

Thrid - The people at Darkblizz do not work for Blizzard Entertainment.

Fourth - This is a cracked version of Star Craft 2 beta which is a game designed to play against players, not AI. Which is why Blizzard Entertainment didn't put much effort at all into their AIs, and people like Turdburgler and Goosie are attempting to improve the AI in order for the community to have something to do instead of watch replays all day posted on youtube.

Oh yea, and to answer your question - the people losing to the AI either are new, or just suck.

kblood · March 05, 2010, 04:26:10 PM

Yea, loosing to these AI is usually just because new players are getting used to what buildings to build, and learning a build order that balances income vs making troops.
I remember my first Starcraft games vs AI and my first Warcraft 3 games vs AI. In the beginning it even seemed impossible to beat them

But once you know how many workers you need before increasing troop limit and how to pop out troops rather fast, then you know how to start the game. After that it should not take long to beat most of these AI. Biggest problem for most these AI seems knowing when to attack and when to run. As long as the AIs troops can be somewhat matched or lured into tight spots, or just out maneuvered, then it should always be possible to beat it.
I could try making a x50 chinese AI that has build orders based on that kind of income. Making an AI still seems a bit overwhelming though. So kudos to all the great AI programmers here