StarCrack AI Official v6.0 preview discussion

[orbb24]

I am very excited. Can't wait to play against this AI. O and btw, I don't exploit the AI. It is still easy. Don't start calling out people that are good as only being able to beat the AI through exploits. Some of us are just good.

[mOsteel]

release it right away please

[Artanis186]

I MIGHT be exploting. I'm not sure. I build a gateway/forge wall at my ramp with 1 square open so my units can go in and out. The enemy does the back and forth thing there, so I may be exploiting. Any clarification if I am?

[p.W]

I am very excited. Can't wait to play against this AI. O and btw, I don't exploit the AI. It is still easy. Don't start calling out people that are good as only being able to beat the AI through exploits. Some of us are just good.

Did you even read what I said? The 'not "on purpose"' bit? The AI cannot deal with certain parts of the game as well as other parts. When it comes to dealing with harassment, expansion denial, and kiting, the AI is plain stupid. It's not a competent player's fault for taking advantage of those things, because by the standard of regular games they're not taking advantage of anything, they're just playing the game the way it's meant to be played.


Tell me, when you play T vs P/Z AI, do you submerge your depots all the time and let the enemy run into your base? Or do you keep a couple of Marines standing nearby to get free shots off as the enemy closes and retreats? Just wondering.

I MIGHT be exploting. I'm not sure. I build a gateway/forge wall at my ramp with 1 square open so my units can go in and out. The enemy does the back and forth thing there, so I may be exploiting. Any clarification if I am?

If by virtue of this "trick" you keep the AI from getting inside your base, then yeah. Note again I'm not making any judgements at all, and my use of the word 'exploit' seems to be carrying a negative connotation I didn't intend. It's completely natural to keep doing whatever's working.

[Cynris]

Can't wait for this release, keep up the good work guys!!

[Artanis186]

I MIGHT be exploting. I'm not sure. I build a gateway/forge wall at my ramp with 1 square open so my units can go in and out. The enemy does the back and forth thing there, so I may be exploiting. Any clarification if I am?

If by virtue of this "trick" you keep the AI from getting inside your base, then yeah. Note again I'm not making any judgements at all, and my use of the word 'exploit' seems to be carrying a negative connotation I didn't intend. It's completely natural to keep doing whatever's working.

I knew what you intended, I took no offense to it. I'm just curious if the exploiting is the ONLY reason I'm winning.



Here's my usual base entrance. There's also usually a few zealots and maybe some stalkers there too. My units can fit through that bottom slot below the gateway

[Nesreca]

Wow. Just read the update about 6.0

Honestly, I'm really awful at this game and I kind of didn't remember. The old Easy AI that everyone has in their Launchers, is of course, too fraking easy. Even the medium is easy. for some reason 5.5 (no cheating) is just really hard to me. I can't imagine 6.0 being harder. The AI just constantly throws units while simultaneously building and expanding, and I cant keep up lol. I really suck at Starcraft haha.

Keep challenging yourself and you'll get better before you know it! If you're having a really hard time, try a lower version to get your morale up. The key to any RTS game is multi-tasking and understanding your tech / units. Starting making groups (by highlighting and pressing SHIFT+#) and practice multi-tasking. You can bind a building to it's own group if you want too (I do that for my Hatchery because I play Zerg).


PM me if you want some pointers - I may not be an awesomeleetnessauce player, but I'm willing to help you out.


Edit: Oh yea, and if you're having a hard time it might be because you can't choose your race for your games, so you may be busy trying to learn all of the races. Just press F10, and "Restart" untill you get the race you want to learn first.

[p.W]

I MIGHT be exploting. I'm not sure. I build a gateway/forge wall at my ramp with 1 square open so my units can go in and out. The enemy does the back and forth thing there, so I may be exploiting. Any clarification if I am?[/size][/font]

If by virtue of this "trick" you keep the AI from getting inside your base, then yeah. Note again I'm not making any judgements at all, and my use of the word 'exploit' seems to be carrying a negative connotation I didn't intend. It's completely natural to keep doing whatever's working.

I knew what you intended, I took no offense to it. I'm just curious if the exploiting is the ONLY reason I'm winning.



Here's my usual base entrance. There's also usually a few zealots and maybe some stalkers there too. My units can fit through that bottom slot below the gateway

Very easy to check. Play a game and don't do it.


I know I have a lot of trouble holding off the first Zerg rush if I don't set up a wall. I can do it, but have never fully recovered from that and gone on to beat the AI.

[Sandwich]

Awesome! The dancing army stuff is making me want to kill myself.

[Artanis186]

Awesome! The dancing army stuff is making me want to kill myself.

Damn, talk about taking a game too seriously.

[Enox]

Wow. Just read the update about 6.0

Honestly, I'm really awful at this game and I kind of didn't remember. The old Easy AI that everyone has in their Launchers, is of course, too fraking easy. Even the medium is easy. for some reason 5.5 (no cheating) is just really hard to me. I can't imagine 6.0 being harder. The AI just constantly throws units while simultaneously building and expanding, and I cant keep up lol. I really suck at Starcraft haha.

Keep in mind that players that consider the AIs very easy are most likely using a lot of tricks that exploit the AI's (lack of) intelligence. Not "on purpose" but because these exploits are standard gaming against human opponents. Walls, harassing units, and ranged units in general are all things the AI is ill-equipped to deal with.


But if you're a newbie playing Terran and don't know how to build a proper Terran wall, let alone if you don't even know what a Terran wall is... it's only natural that you're gonna have a LOT more trouble.

Thanks everyone for your advice. I used to play SC1 off and on, and i've been able to play Toss and Terran usually. Never been a Zerg player at all so yeah when its set to random and i get them i really just try to mass Zerglings (upgrades of course)

But you know what I found out? I was playing the 5.5 with Cheating...haha whoops. I was getting constant constant flows of Zerg units coming into my base, like...never ending. Normal 5.5 not so much the same problem haha. I can create a bomb terran defense that can't be penetrated. It's just moving out onto them when i get Zerg swarmed. But yeah, it was all custom 5.5 that was killing me haha.

[orbb24]

I am very excited. Can't wait to play against this AI. O and btw, I don't exploit the AI. It is still easy. Don't start calling out people that are good as only being able to beat the AI through exploits. Some of us are just good.

Did you even read what I said? The 'not "on purpose"' bit? The AI cannot deal with certain parts of the game as well as other parts. When it comes to dealing with harassment, expansion denial, and kiting, the AI is plain stupid. It's not a competent player's fault for taking advantage of those things, because by the standard of regular games they're not taking advantage of anything, they're just playing the game the way it's meant to be played.


Tell me, when you play T vs P/Z AI, do you submerge your depots all the time and let the enemy run into your base? Or do you keep a couple of Marines standing nearby to get free shots off as the enemy closes and retreats? Just wondering.

I did read the post. You said it MAY be unintentional. Implying others probably are doing the intentional ones such as 8 scvs on a bunker. And since you are "just wondering" I only wall in when I play against the cheating AI. Against the normal 5.5 I don't wall in because that would be exploiting it. With the cheating AI though you have to use that exploit or else you are just going to get over run. Nothing you can really do about that. And I am sorry for making it such a big deal. It just seemed like you were acting like one of those people who think others only have an easy time because they have to exploit and in no way could just be good. See way to many of those people so I just assumed you were another. Sorry about that if you aren't trying to act like that.

[Artanis186]

Very easy to check. Play a game and don't do it.


I know I have a lot of trouble holding off the first Zerg rush if I don't set up a wall. I can do it, but have never fully recovered from that and gone on to beat the AI.

Well, I tested... but idt I can really count that test successfully. See, i apparently did a 3-way ffa with the comps. Well, Zerg 1 came in, killed a buncha my probes and I managed to fend em off. Then... the Terran came in. I barely held out with them. Then the Zerg came back with Roaches and I was lost. This was all sequential, 0 break from the waves. Happened 1 after another RIGHT when I fended them off. I'll try it out on a 1v1 next time, maybe my chances of success will increase.

[limonel25]

- Expansion managing functions (defences, etc)

That's a tough one, the actual defense depends if you want to make it more realistic or more challenging. Most players don't actually build a lot of defenses at each expansion, they rely on strategy and rally of their troops to where they are needed. But this of course relies on planning ahead and expansion placement. In your case to prevent cheesing the AI, it might be more beneficial to have the AI place more building defense (cannons/bunkers/crawlers). This is because the AI would have a tough time choosing where and how to defend and for it to less likely string attacks. For example if it goes to defend a far away expansion, I'll just go attack its main.

- New custom AI attack functions (resource harrasing, constant pressure on the player)

Drops? I think this really is a key strategy that the AI could really abuse players on, especially newbies. I think SC2 it's less effective (so far), but would keep players on their toes. The only other attack functions I could immediately think of, or rather strategy, is containing the player. This was HUGE in SC, especially for Terran. But SC2 introduces more mobile units and especially units such as the reaper and colossus that can scale the level. So it may be more effective if you just put pressure on the opponent's expansions.

- 3 new opens, mid and late games for every race. (Which means 27 different variations per race and 81 overall)

Nice, nice, and nice. Variety is everything in this game. Once something (or someone) gets predictable the game will get old fast. Thanks for all your continued hard work on this AI, and I look forward to testing it out. You're fucking awesome.

[Artanis186]

maybe my chances of success will increase.

And maybe not... apparently sYk0 screwed up the maps and the 1v1 had 2 AI in it... Well, I messaged him about it and I'll await updated maps (I can't LIVE without his ones with loading screens. ;o)