Improved StarCrack AI 5.5 Cheating Version Updated!

[gile23]

Lol okay. No offense but a little more time spent on grammar could help your posts be read a little easier. Anyways, aside from that, what are zeppelins? lol. I agree, AI 5.5 cheating is tough. In 1v1 how do you manage to get AIR as toss before comp rapes you? Unless you put up defense structures and defend the initial attack I think the game would be over by then.

Is dayvie still the best on bnet? Last I checked he wasn't. I too would like to see the platinum folks play against cheating AI.

@Swarmling
GJ. yeah I could see the 3 gate rush working for zerg.

Xd, carriers man , how i managed, i was trying to defend with good army, i fast teached gotted 2 structures (don t know exact name) for carriers, i expand myself in fifth minute, in begging i have a lot of army. Are you sure that 3 gateway rush work for Ai, in one game i gotted some about 7 warp gates WTF, i always research charge and blink, it s imba . I think that those bnet guys won t have a great chance against those AI, in a couple of first games Ai will pawn them easily , later i don t know . I can see that you all win Ai on beggining or blast him out with a couple of nukes , try some other way, which you can try against human player . How many SCV-s/Probe-s /Drone-s are you sending on gas ?

[Swarmling]

yea dude i dont think you understand the words 3gateway rush at all cause your not going to have 7 gateways untel mid game and 7 is still a small amount of gateways i build around 15-20 that way u can warp-in 15-20 units at once  but i didnt need to build more then 3 gateways cause i pushed the AI trapped him in hes base so u couldnt get a expo with my 15 zealots standing there then once i teched into stalkers and got around 4-5 i started to push into hes base and micro hes roaches cause they got 3 range and stalkers have 5 that way hes roach doent pull of one hit and back up zealots with stalkers so they dont die for notthing also and that way the lings cant touch your stalkers or zealots and there army die slowly and once u know your army will win just fuck micro and crush him..lol

[gg.sc2]

I think he means to play without doing a quick zeal rush because the rush will stop the overall potential of the AI. I still can't manage to defend the initial AI attack well, unless I rush and stop the AI's potential power. Some matchups I can, some I can't. I play random.

[MeruFM]

Playing against the Cheating AI is definitely not the same as playing against a real person.
Same goes for the older cheating AI people made for broodwar.


Just an example


10 Rax scout
11 Gas
11 Comsat
11 Supply


When my scout gets to the enemy protoss or terran base at around 12/13, they somehow already have 3 gateways or 2 barracks up which is just insane.


Forces you to play defensive or somehow mess up the enemy workers by glitching the AI a bit. Either way, it's nothing like playing a real person who adapts. The computer can just manage to win by sheer numbers building faster than you if you don't do some sort of wall-in.

[gg.sc2]

Playing against the Cheating AI is definitely not the same as playing against a real person.
Same goes for the older cheating AI people made for broodwar.


Just an example


10 Rax scout
11 Gas
11 Comsat
11 Supply


When my scout gets to the enemy protoss or terran base at around 12/13, they somehow already have 3 gateways or 2 barracks up which is just insane.


Forces you to play defensive or somehow mess up the enemy workers by glitching the AI a bit. Either way, it's nothing like playing a real person who adapts. The computer can just manage to win by sheer numbers building faster than you if you don't do some sort of wall-in.

Yes, by the time your scout arrives, the comp already has 2-3 structures up. That's the fun of the cheating version, to try to survive whilst playing a matchup as if against a real person. Makes you try to play faster in response. But playing defensively, the AI will just fail.

[chetjan]

Cheating AI FTW

[thaned]

How you install these ai? The other ais are sc2.basedata and this one is different.

[chetjan]

I wonder who this chinese guy is.

[greenbird]

gile23 is a liar. Disregard anything he says in how he beat "ai".
Having said that, anyone who is decent in starcraft 1 can beat this cheating AI quite easily.

The key to winning is knowing what 'build' the AI will do, there are 2 builds for each race.
Zerg will either mass roach/ling or mass ling/hydra, with the mass roach build hitting much earlier.
With good scouting and an advanced scout to tell you when he is due to come you can position your units pretty safely.

You cannot mass units at start to win this game, because you will be so far behind economically.

There's two ways to win regardless of which race you pick.
One is defensive tech build. This is where you slowly build troops from one gateway/rax/hatch while putting down cannons/sunks/ on chokepoint while teching to tier 3 units. 3-4 cannons et ci s good enough to hold the initial rush as long as you have enough troops. Key point is not over creating units or you will be too poor to expand or being too slow to create tier 3 units before the 2nd attack.

The other method is fast expand. This is abusing knowing the timing of their attack. The AI does not 'rush' , so you expand to your natural on 14th prob/drone/scv and at the last minute pump out defensive structures just before first wave hits. This is harder to defend with since if your build timing is 5seconds too late the first rush will hit you just before you have enough units todefend with. But if you do survive the first rush you will have more income than the AI and be able to mass units pretty quickly.

If zerg goes hydra rush, it is pretty hard to stop since defensive buildings are pretty weak, which is why you need to scout early and figure out what it's going to do, but because hydra rush comes about 5minutes later than the ling/roach build you can save money on defensive structures and tech straight to tier 3 units to defend against.

Protoss zealot rush is pretty easy to defend vs , but because they push quicker you need to cut back on the economy to build more units. Stalker rush variation is similiar to the hydra variation.

Terran does either marine/marauder push or reaper push. Probably the easiest out of the 3 to stop. Reaper push is really hard to defend vs if you rely on cliff chokes on maps such as LT since they will ignore your choke point and just attack your units directly.

The AI doesn't spend its money efficiently even it starts with a lot more, which is why you have to be efficient at the start on how you spend money. Building 2 gateways or 2rax is a waste of money vs AI since you won't have the income to pump out units while teching or expanding.

After the initial rush as long as you create the counter units to whatever units the AI builds, it's pretty easy to win.

You can also safely expand to anywhere that isn't a direct path to your base. AI will scout expansions but it won't attack unless it's on their way to your main.

[gg.sc2]

Yes I agree, but I'm talking about playing the AI straight up without playing defensively. Knowing that no one can really do this has led to the conclusion that you can't possibly win the AI except abuse its potential. Well, I can't say it's impossible, I've been able to beat AI without playing defensively, but it was with some luck and a huge slow down because I had to pull my workers to fight. It's more fun this way to challenge yourself rather than keep to the boring old defending which most people can do.

@thaned
Just copy the TriggerLibs folder from the file you downloaded into your Starcraft II Beta directory in Program Files. It automatically overwrites whatever AI base.SC2Data you installed into the Mods folder. To remove this version AI, just take out the TriggerLibs folder with all the galaxy files inside it and your original AI base.SC2Data will kick in.

[greenbird]

It's not like starcraft 1 where you could abuse the AI or outmicro the opponents even with inferior numbers. In starcraft 2 there is very little micro except for spells. In starcraft 1 a good player with 6lings could beat 4zealots , now because the AI or auto attack micro is better than most peoples trying to micro manage your units most of the time causes you to lose more than win.

You can still win by proxy rax/bunker rush, cannon rush (5 pool doesn't work, because AI micro is too good), but I doubt anyone in the world can defeat 6zealots with 3zealots vs anyone simply because AI does all the work.

Because the AI will build 3-4gateways from the start I'd like to hear how anyone can harass the  AI without going cannon rush et c. You can't. Anyone who says they can is a liar.

Starcraft 1 the ceiling for good micro was very high, but starcraft 2 micro is nearly non existent, so anyone who talks about beating 6zealots with 3 zealots are talking out of their ass.

You can defeat it without defensive structures such as terran if you send scvs to repair supply/rax block , but the amount of wasted time scvs are sent to repair is more than the cost of a bunker. Zerg can stop certain rushes without defensive , but without enough drones to power to 3rd tier, they are pretty stuffed for 2nd push. Protoss can do it by rushing DTs and DT blocking ramp, but that's not something you'd do 'normally'.

The problem doesn't lie with the mapmakers script, the problem lies with the AI micro. A good player vs Computer AI fighting means the person with more units or on defence wins. This wasn't the case in starcraft 1.

Because there's only so many variations in build orders for the AI races, once you know what they are going to send and the timing, it's pretty easy to win.

What's lacking in cheating AI is that it uses its resources really inefficiently. Building 4gateways at start?? Making 6lings and not doing anything with them until it has 16? The script fails badly mid game where it suddenly stops making tier 1 units and starts trying to mass tier 4 units.

Non cheating AI will always be too ez for decent people, and a cheating AI can only be won vs by playing defensively at start thanks to its massive initial resources. I don't mind playing defensively at start, the problem is that if you can hold off the initial rush , it's way too ez to stomp the computer.

[gg.sc2]

6 lings will never kill 4 zealots, don't know where you got that from, unless there is a huge upgrade difference. I could care less about losing. I can defend the initial rush with workers as support, I'd just be far behind. But depending on the AI's unit choice, I can catch up. All due to luck and AI faultiness.

You say so yourself it's too easy to stomp the computer, then don't play defensively. Add a little challenge by trying to micro even if SC2 doesn't have a strong focus on micro. I don't know why you emphasize winning so much versus exploration, experimentation. And, it "IS" abusing the AI when you're using a method to which AI just cannot possibly react to, such as, massing defense and then just pounding them afterwards. Reminds me so much of the SC1 days where you can go 1v8COMPS and just wall in and blow everything up with tanks. Where's the fun in that?

[claushouse]

I don't know if you guys are playing the 5.5++, but I am having serious trouble beating this AI.


I've been playing SC since 1998 and my first love is playing the CPU, and I can 1v6 in SC1, but this is giving me problems, even after reading comments and looking at replays.


I'm looking at my last game, TvP, and 4:45 into the game my Protoss enemy has 11 zealots at my door, 4 gateways, an expansion, 16 workers, and my bunkers and several guys are no match.


I escape and regroup behind a rocked area and by 14:45 he's attacking me with a mothership and a small fleet of carriers on top of having a huge ground army and cannon'd base.


The game prior i had 15 roaches and 6 lings at my door within minutes, the game prior to that i got reaper rushed.


Even skipping to tanks or quick expansions doesnt work in time; my only success was with Protoss vs. Protoss just cannon'ing the crap out of my choke point. I expanded to several areas out of my bases way but the enemy found me and destroyed them; whoever said they don't attack expansions is incorrect, they scout and find them.


Moreover, my enemy FULLY upgraded his entire fleet, quickly moving to massive carrier fleets. I got my cannons to kill the interceptors then moved in with Phoenixs (too poor for carriers), but he'd retreat to his well-defended base, then attack my expansions and sit outside cannon range with his carriers and pick them off.


I lasted 55 minutes, but eventually the carriers overwhelmed me when I ran out of minerals. I snuck around multiple times with drop ships to expand but he eventually tracked me down every time, constantly expanding his own empire.


I've only been playing with the 5.5++ for a few hours, but I find it frustrating losing to the CPU.


I'd love for you more skilled players to give me a specific build-order and by what time I should reach those in order to have more success, I'd appreciate it!






EDIT: Just dominated it TvZ with some early tanks then going BC, but vs. a late hydra rush so it was pretty easy; still struggling with other races.

[bbsin]

I don't know if you guys are playing the 5.5++, but I am having serious trouble beating this AI.


I've been playing SC since 1998 and my first love is playing the CPU, and I can 1v6 in SC1, but this is giving me problems, even after reading comments and looking at replays.


I'm looking at my last game, TvP, and 4:45 into the game my Protoss enemy has 11 zealots at my door, 4 gateways, an expansion, 16 workers, and my bunkers and several guys are no match.


I escape and regroup behind a rocked area and by 14:45 he's attacking me with a mothership and a small fleet of carriers on top of having a huge ground army and cannon'd base.


The game prior i had 15 roaches and 6 lings at my door within minutes, the game prior to that i got reaper rushed.


Even skipping to tanks or quick expansions doesnt work in time; my only success was with Protoss vs. Protoss just cannon'ing the crap out of my choke point. I expanded to several areas out of my bases way but the enemy found me and destroyed them; whoever said they don't attack expansions is incorrect, they scout and find them.


Moreover, my enemy FULLY upgraded his entire fleet, quickly moving to massive carrier fleets. I got my cannons to kill the interceptors then moved in with Phoenixs (too poor for carriers), but he'd retreat to his well-defended base, then attack my expansions and sit outside cannon range with his carriers and pick them off.


I lasted 55 minutes, but eventually the carriers overwhelmed me when I ran out of minerals. I snuck around multiple times with drop ships to expand but he eventually tracked me down every time, constantly expanding his own empire.


I've only been playing with the 5.5++ for a few hours, but I find it frustrating losing to the CPU.


I'd love for you more skilled players to give me a specific build-order and by what time I should reach those in order to have more success, I'd appreciate it!






EDIT: Just dominated it TvZ with some early tanks then going BC, but vs. a late hydra rush so it was pretty easy; still struggling with other races.

The cheating version of 5.5 gives the protoss AI extra resources so they can easily mass produce carriers. I can beat the other races, but protoss is really tough to beat if you don't finish them early. By the time you see one carrier, it's already too late since there will be another 6 carriers just around the corner. I once made 4 starports with reactor cores to in attempt to counter, but vikings simply can't hold up against a fleet of carriers.

[greenbird]

gg2 from your posting it's obvious you don't know what you are talking about.
A good terran player can kill a lurker with a single marine by abusing the cooldown timings for attack in sc1. Starcraft 1 AI would auto attack nearest threat which is why decent players can 'dance' units around people who didn't micro them at all. Agro the zealots with 1 ling then hit the furthest zealot with the other 5 and swap ling positions so they never get hit more than twice. Mainly because it takes 3 zealot hits to kill a ling. While 2 hits from 5lings kill a zealot. This is assuming you aren't playing a player but the computers default auto attack controls.

In starcraft 2 the dancing doesn't work effectively in that the unit will stop chasing and go back on the default path after a few seconds if it can't hit the unit.

Easiest way I found to defeat AI zealots is simply to constantly dance units while your defensive structure hits it. AI priortises units first so with 1-2 units keep moving back and forth while your range units/structure hits it. Requires careful micro or your units die pretty quickly. Can't do this vs any other units because lings are faster and rines have range. Killed the initial 10zealot rush with 4lings and 2sunks this way.

Claushouse  with TVP either build a bunker at chokepoint with supply/rax and have 3-4 scvs repairing. Have a scout scv ahead so you know when he moves out, that's when you pull your scvs from base to repair. I usually have about 6 rines and my tank ends up popping during the battle.

BO is 9 rax 10upgraded CC and gas/supply depot 12 factory 14-16 supply depending on whether you want to wallblock using supply or bunker. Main thing in terran is to constantly use the mule, which is why rax before supply. A mule equals 6scvs. Pumping out rines meanwhile.
This works vs zerg/toss , but vs terran you need to cut down on minerals faster and have your gas out earlier so your tank comes out with SIEGE earlier. If you time it right, your tank gets siege just before they hit and with 8rines with 4 in a bunker you should barely win.

Toss is easiest to win with either 14nexus (expand) 15gate/forge and end up with 2-3zealots + 3cannons to win. Must stress the use of chronosphere, gotta keep spaming it on gateway or nexus to get your units out faster. 2-3zealots blocking a choke with cannon support pretty much forces AI to retreat.  Or if you aren't good at expanding fast, gateway with 2-3zealots+2 sentry  +2cannons pretty much wins as well. Another is fast dts, quick gas and don't build any defensive structure make late 2nd gateway and pump out 2dts and put them on hold on choke. Chronosphere boost on gateways so they come out just in time to block.

Zerg 14 2nd hatch14 pool by the time your pool finishes so should your 2nd hatch. Make sure 2nd hatch is built on choke point so you can create your defensive structures there. 2-3 sunkens(can make more if you feel you need to) +8lings +queen+drones if needed stops any rush.

Best things about my specific builds is that you aren't behind economically and you actually start matching the AIs resource pool once you hold off defending.

Terran has it easiest to win quickly, after the initial rush push out with 2tanks +12rines+4marauders +4scvs. Bunker down on his natural and GG.
You win with ez with protoss with zealots 2sentries and 2 collusus. Nothing the AI has at that point can stop it. 
Zergs the only race you can't beat the AI within 20minutes , but pretty ez to win anyway.